Arsenal’s loanees are some of the most talked about and debated players at the club, with thousands of fans using websites, blogs and social media to put their points across on potential stars of the future.
However, few truly know the daily goings on of players at their loan clubs like the actual supporters of that particular outfit. To get the full perspective on another crop of exciting youngsters, Young Guns’ Loanee Analysis sees me catch up with journalists who follow their club closely.
To get the low-down on Armand Traoré, I caught up with Adam Digby, a freelance Italian football journalist. He gave me the Juve perspective on Traoré.
What was the feeling when Armand signed for Juventus?
“In all honesty one of general indifference, a real feeling of “if he’s not good enough for Arsenal how can he help us?” However I would temper that with an understanding that he was a similar player to the first choice leftback, Paolo De Ceglie, which showed some thought had gone into it.”
How has the season been, and what part did Armand played in it?
“The season for Juventus has clearly been terrible and sadly Armand has played very little part in it, making just ten appearances and struggling with injury, fitness and personal problems.”
What would you consider his highlights this season?
“It is very difficult to provide a ‘highlight’. He has been a consistent performer and done well when he has been available. His defensive play, positioning and tactical intelligence are much improved and it is no small compliment to say he fits in well among Serie A defenders. The game against Milan, a 1-0 defeat, was probably his best performance, showcasing his closing down, recovery pace and newfound defensive attributes.”
What would you consider his low-lights this season?
“His prolonged absences. It was mid-November before he was fit to play, then in late January he lost his father and this deeply affected him. He missed almost a month.”
What does the future hold and do you think he’ll make the grade at Arsenal?
“I think he’ll ultimately return to Arsenal, although I would not rule out remaining in Turin entirely. He hasn’t truly shown his ability for either club to date, but I firmly believe he could be a solid back up player at either club. He has shown the ability to improve his weaknesses and if a year in Serie A has made him a better defender then it is to the credit of Arsenal for sending him to Juventus.”
You can read all the articles in this series in our loanees area.
Alternatively, if you fancy a cheeky bet on us mounting a title challenge for next season, why don’t you visit bwin and check all the latest odds available. Transfer rumours and all the latest news on this summer transfer window are also delivered regularly. Check out the site and see what the fuss is all about.
When I first saw him I was excited, simple because of his pace. Since then he’s shown not much more, I think it’s time for him to go tbh. If he does; good luck to him
If Clichy goes, he should stay. Otherwise not sure…..
Interesting piece. I haven’t been following his progress in Serie A to be honest, I was much more interested in keeping up with Bartley, Lansbury, Coquelin, Miyaichi, Afobe, etc. and pretty much took Traore as a ‘goner’.
But if his “defensive play, positioning and tactical intelligence are much improved”, and with Clichy not on top form, Gibbs still hampered by injuries, then he could be very useful to us next season.
I think traore gibbs and botelho are all much of the same. Clichy is very slightly a better defender but not as good pushing forward as any of them. Personally i would make tv5 our new left back then sell one of the other 4 to fund bringing in vertonghen or sakho to partner Samba.
Compare Vermaelen with Marcelo, or Alves, or Maicon, or Cole and you’ll see the folly of your suggestions. Those players are the prototype. Verminator doesn’t match up except in terms of body weight.
Slick, although you’re right to make the comparison, you will also notice that each of those players has a more defensive fullback on the opposite flank.
Fair point, and I did consider that but still thought AW would be looking for something more offensively threatening on both flanks than the Verminator could provide. Maybe I’m wrong though, considering AW balanced Cole with Lauren.
He’s actually much better than Gibbs believe it or not. If Gibbs wasn’t English he would be slaughtered by our fans.
Gibbs was great when given the opportunity in the two seasons previous to this one, but was really poor this year. Imo traore was really about as good as kieran, maybe slightly behind, but he did get unjustly slaughtered by many fans.
Traore played badly twice in his 8 games last year, once against chelsea, when everyone was bad, and once against donovan’s everton – and everyone struggled against him at that time. Apart from that, he was more than good. One of our best players in a couple of his games actually.
Imo he had improved dramatically last season from the year before, and I’m not surprised he’s done pretty well in his few appearances for Juve. He looks mentally tough, and is physically stronger and more skilled than either clichy or gibbs. I doubt he’s improved enough this season to be considered anything like the finished article, but imo he’s another who deserves more chances to impress, particularly with gibbs’ poor form this season.
Botelho I know nothing really about, so can’t compare. The left back race is going to be interesting next season, but I hope arsene actually gives each of them a chance to make it into the 1st team, and doesn’t simply give it to gibbs. No problems with me if he earns it of course – he’s well capable of doing that.
That is surprisingly better news than I expected, actually. Sorry to hear about his dad. Hopefully Digby isn’t just spouting vague generalities and actually knows specifically that Traore has improved defensively.
Come to think of it, maybe we need a partnership with a lower division Italian club that specializes in defensive tactics and organization, and send all promising young defenders there for a year at a time!
i agree with @TheDaddy – he’s probably as good as or better than gibbs, just not english. I think botelho & Traore should be loaned out to a PL (probably unrealistic) or at LEAST a league 1 side. championship side would be great. i just think it’ll be easier for us & AW to see how good he is and well he could do in PL if he’s playing in england….
“In all honesty one of general indifference, a real feeling of “if he’s not good enough for Arsenal how can he help us?”
maybe because Arsenal is 1000 times better?
I think he’s decent as a left winger, good pace, decent dribbler, whips the ball in with real pace (not always accuracy) and has a good shot on him. Can’t ever see him being a top level full back though, I’ve seen a bit of him for Juve and any defensive improvements are minimal. He’s still very poor.
I never understand the suggestions when you have a full back who is poor defensively but good going forward. It’s all right attacking as a full back when you’ve got the opposing team’s winger “marking” you, but what would Traore create against a decent prem full back. Or what would he offer more than Nasri, Walcott, Arshavin, Vela or even Rosicky wouldn’t.
If “the daddy” were standing next to me he would have gotten a punch in the face looooooooong before his last comment!!! He’s a racist cunt who doesn’t know a thing about football, or anything for that matter!!! Gibbs more than earned his place ahead of Traore 2 seasons ago and was injured way too much this past season to hit any type of form!!! I still think Gibbs can be a very good player who adds something that Traore and Clichy don’t…the ability to pick a pass and the ability to shoot!!! Traore has a good shot on him as well but he can’t pass to save his life!!! I know passing isn’t too important for a left back but if we really want to play “total football” then we have to have players who are comfortable on the ball in ALL positions!!! Gibbs will learn how to defend. That is the next step in his development and it will come!! Don’t forget, he’s at least a year younger than Traore. I’m not writing Traore OR Botelho off!!! I haven’t seen enough of the latter to make an honest and informed evaluation, while the former needs a few more chances before we can truly say if he is good enough or not!!! Screw you “the daddy” I”m damn glad you ain’t my father!!!
Don’t let facts get in the way of a good rant! Gibbs is actually older than traore! Struggling to see the racism here too by daddy. Surely they are both of African descent with a bit of European thrown in. But for crying out loud what is it with youth sites and people crying racism. One day you will all grow up and worry about more important things like when are going to bloody win something again.
“If Gibbs wasn’t English he would be slaughtered by our fans.”
What a complete load of crap. Football fans are so bloody fickle. Gibbs looked every bit a top quality prospect when he first came through. A couple of poor games and suddenly he’s useless. Oh and please no-one else suggest playing Vermaelen at left back. Playing by far and away our best CB not in his natural position would be complete and utter fail.
Completely agree. Football fans are too quick to write off players after a couple of poor games. It’s not easy to step into a team after 2 months without playing and be at your best.
It’s been similar with people like Carlos Vela. Written off before he’s had a run of 3 games in the team.
Have u seen vermaelen play left back for Belgium? I have and he is superb. If we had 2 centre backs that were better than him which Samba and vertonghen are then why not play him there.
www, thats about 40 million you’re talking about. Dream on…
Cygan – i would say more like £25m for Samba and Vertonghen, if we signed them both we could sell Squillaci and Clichy for around £10m the pair so that is a £15m outlay and will improve the team no end. I dont see that figure as too dreamy, crikey we spent almost that last year on Koscielney and Squillaci
I think this guy is underrated,I have always liked his play more than gibbs,gibbs is overrated just becouse he’s english.
we should loan him out to juve again if it can further his defensive development
he needs to go. He will never make it at Arsenal. Gibbs is ahead of him. He has the wrong attitude too. going around and think he is a super player.
In my own opinion, i think arsenal should jst buy player lyk sakho, leave gibbs then sell clichy and forget abt troare. Clichy has flop in d past season, even most d errors in defense do come frm him, so let him go. Some1 lyk should also, we only need commited player nt the ones dt plays half a season n b demanding 4 more fund. Next season xi shld be, sagna, samba, verm, sakho/gibbs, song/lass, fab,wilshere/rambo/hazard, maiyachi/aa, rvp, chamak/walcott.
Samba and Vertonghen are better than Vermaelen??????? WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT??????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Samba isn’t even close and Vertonghen has to prove himself in a top league!!! Ajax are a major club but do not play in the best league. I will say that Vertonghen has the potential to become as good as Vermaelen but I am not prepared to say he will become better!! That`s crazy. Yes Vermaelen can play well at left back, but we would lose his passing ability outt here as well as his long-range shooting ability if he were shunted out to the flanks!! If healthy, I would put him in the world class category of centre backs. right up there with anyone!!! Is Terry better??? No. Is Vidic better, yes. Is Puyol better??? Not anymore. Is Thiago Silva better??? Not yet. Is Pique better??? No. This is how highly he should be rated!!!
Vermaelen’s good but better than Pique and Terry? No way.
Well Belgium certainly think vertonghen is a better centre half than vermaelen which is why they play vertonghen alongside van buyten and switch tv5 to left back or dm, more often that not. Samba whilst technically is not as good as vermaelen, defensively he is better and will prove that very soon. I would be quite happy to play tv5 alongside Samba and Vertonghen at left back or DM. I just want us to improve on last season and if we had vertonghen, vermaelen and samba in our back 5 that will be an improvement for me. I am not talking about selling TV5 ffs, nor song, nor even Clichy, just giving them some serious competition other than Squillaci and denilson and gibbs. Whilst i like Gibbs and Traore and Botelho, i just feel that they may have more to offer in midfield or left wing, until they perfect their defending.
I have seen Vermeulen play left back and saying that he was superb is stretching the truth. More like he was reliable and dependable.
In the current 4-2-3-1 formation, full backs are some of the most important players. Unless you have a prodigy out wide (Messi, Ronaldo, …), most of the attacks stem from the full back either overlapping or occupying his opposing full back to leave space for their winger to attack the penalty box.
Vermeulen could not fullfill that role at premiership level.
I can confirm that Armand Traore has improved as a left back. He now seems to be aware of his positioning. It is indeed a poor indictment of the Arsenal defensive teaching that he picked up so much in less than 9 months in Italy when he has barely been playing first team football.
However I believe that Armand Traore days at Arsenal are numbered and unless Clichy leave in the Summer like Senderos before his loan deal in Italy has just been a prelude to him leaving AFC.
Bothelho is an unknown quantity as he really has been superb in the secunda. However there is a real chasm in pace, technical quality and physical intensity between the Spanish second tier of football and the premiership. His introduction to English football may be easier as a left sided midfield than as out and out fullback.
‘It is indeed a poor indictment of the Arsenal defensive teaching that he picked up so much in less than 9 months in Italy when he has barely been playing first team football’
Many Gooners have been saying this for years now. If there are still Gooners out there who believe we don’t have a monumental problem when it comes to defensive coaching, you really need to wake up!
Nice comment Valentin
Been a while since i’ve watched him as i have no interest in Italian football but I do infact know somebody who supports Juve and he mirrored what was said in this article and does not believe he will ever make it at Arsenal.From what i remember, he’s not wrong and Traore can only ever hope to be Ferreir type player at Arsenal as back up to Gibbs IF Clichy leaves otherwise its curtains in afraid..
i think wenger is indifferent between gibbs and traore but has given the nod to gibbs because he’s english. i think this loan was a shop window senderos-to-milan-type loan. traore’s for sale.
i actually think traore has a bit more to offer than gibbs though, having been on loan to portsmouth already, let’s not forget. he has actually played a season.
i hope he can improve and be somebody in the game.
i think botelho will be a smash hit for us…he has a good burst of pace to his game that bodes well. some of his goals this year have been shit hot. a brazilian bale.
i’v seen enough of Gibbs to he really sinks.if anything Gibbs needs a loan in the epl level,traore needs to be in the squad physically the serie A is more demanding so i think he can hold his own in the epl
hahaha Samba better than the Verminator? ive heard it all…. I think Gibbs is overrated tbh Traore is better than him…we’ll see what Botelho has to offer but all these guys shud be fighting for backup duty we need a starting LB after Clichy goes…. also Juve have an option to buy right?
i dont believe wenger’s gonna spend for samba anyway. for me any new addition is welcome but a defensive coach to shape them up and cut down on mistakes is more important than bringing an expensive buy.would samba and parker really give us trophies? i dont think so! if wenger buy them i will support him if not then i wouldn’t care. if djourou is that bad then remember samba made more mistakes than him last season.knowing wenger, this is just speculations. not just 12 millions anyway.he’d rather promote bartley.
Wenger is supposed to have said he is looking for taller players, i have yet to see that quote on arsenal.com, so for now will take it with a pinch of salt. but lets face it if you was him where would you be looking to strengthen the team. Seeing as the most likely players to leave this summer are Denilson & Bendtner and possibly Nasri, Clichy, Cesc and Lansbury where would you expect him to strengthen? Bearing in mind he has also said we need defensive solidity.
Wenger has said several times–but for some reason no one wants to listen–that Arsenal have one of the best defensive records in the league… from open play. If he buys a Samba-type player it will NOT be as a regular starter, but as an option in games against teams (such as Stoke) who have a disturbingly good record of scoring from set pieces. Wenger does seem keen to buy a CB with Prem experience and is looking specifically for someone tall, but as he has said, this is to give more ‘a bigger variety in the height of our players’. The standard CB pairing will still be Vermaelen plus Koscielny (bar a few mistakes, great from open play this season) or Djourou (same, really).
I agree, though. Something about the defensive coaching needs to change. We are just plain useless at defending corners and free kicks into the box. It reminds me of the debates Liverpool used to have under Benitez about ‘zonal marking’–no one seems to be willing to take responsibility and get their head on the ball and its too easy for the opposition to get in unchallenged. It needs organizing.
Would much rather see how Botelho does than stick with Traore.
for me i guess he cant make it to arsenal.no offense this is only my point of view.
I don’t think anyone honestly believes wengers gonna change from his usual philosophy,traore will be sold if clichy goes but will probably stay if clichy goes,as simple as that,Gibbs would be first choice whether we like it or not because as he always says “I don’t want to kill the young players by not playing them” that’s entirely where our problems lie,by changing tact he feels he’ll be letting down the youngsters coming through but guess what arsene these kids need a kick up the backside and they need to show more than just potential to get a first team spot,stop rewarding mediocrity!Armand traore fits that quota,he’s had plenty of loans,premiership with Portsmouth and serie a juventus plus a good spell in the first team and yet has not shown enough for me,OUT.We can’t give unlimited chances to players who clearly aren’t up to standard,when you do this you end up with senderos or almunia quality players.Wenger needs someone to tell him it’s ok to ship out an under performing player,be ruthless,no one will critisise you for doing what’s best and the right thing for the club,this is not a school,the players will get over it and learn from it if thru are deemed not good enough,show some balls man! He apparently said he’s looking for an attacking player of some kind and a defender with premiership experience so my moneys on matthew upson returning as he’s a free transfer too,if he comes back I will hand my season ticket to wenger in person because it’s becoming one big joke.Sell almunia,squillaci,denilson,rosicky,bendtner,traore,Randall and buy a defender that can tackle/head the ball and not one based on his ability to pass from the back like we all know you are obsessed about plus one real top attacking threat,hazard or Ashley young are begging to leave,samba would jump at the chance to lead our defence,you have no excuses now,they ain’t 50million pound players,hell they ain’t even gonna go for 20!All we ask for is 2 players,you can fill the voids left by those wasteless losers that leave by bringing through youth boys that deserve it,everyone would be happy with that,there’s plenty that deserve it and they definately deserve the chance over the ones that have failed and failed miserably.We all want no more excuses,there is none left and none will be tolerated,stop being an accountant and go back to what you’re good at and that’s making us a successful team again.
Sorry I meant traore will go if clichy stays which he should because no matter how much stick he gets he is a brilliant left back and we should be doing our upmost to get him on a new contract along with nasri,we can’t lose 2 of our best players,especially for peanuts
After reading this article it’ clear to see we are all in agreement, the club has an abundance of “mediocre” players who are failing to how the grit which is so sorely needed by the Arsenal first team. However .. playing TV5 out of position is a very silly suggestion as he is clearly the best CB in the squad. Dominic Criscito is set to leave this summer and would be an excellent acquisition for the first team with Gibbs watching and learning from him. TV5 could do with Samba and Vertonghen to play along side with Sagna filling the right back role. Bring Frimpong up and let him learn from Song and although he’s small he isn’t scared and loves a battle (Wilshere esque but more defensive.) And bring in a top top striker .. Although it’s hard to admit but Chicharito has set the standard .. 20 goals in his first season and only 8 million .. Lukaku would revel in the role and it would be good to see him at the club .. Although these players are young that is not a bad thing .. Fab, Messi, Wilshere and all the GREAT players started for their first team when they were (or are in Wilshere’s case) so Lukaku and Frimpong can ..
Szczesny
Sagna Samba/Vertonghen Vermaelen Criscito
Frimpong Wilshere
Walcott Ramsey Van Persie
Lukaku
In my opinion a much stronger team and definitely capable of challenging for trophies .. My opinions guys .. Share the love, don’t hate x
After reading this article it’s** clear to see we are all in agreement, the club has an abundance of “mediocre” players who are failing to show** the grit
apologies .. x
13 goals Chicharito scored .. sorry .. Really bad source !! (My father !!) x
Im hearing that Traore will be allowed to leave as we are very interested in Luke Shaw(saints) and Xavi Quintilla(barca).
This is also the reason that Thomas Cruise and GBH were released.
In his twitter pages Brisnall said he will be with Arsenal another year!
Way off topic, but has anyone seen anything of Gamba Osaka’s 19 year old AM Takashi Usami? The club say that Bayern Munich are in for him and he has a £1.3 million release clause. He looks talented; skillful and direct. The vids of him are hard to judge because J-league defenses seem to melt away if anyone runs at them, but Miyaichi seems to have worked out.
I can’t help but think that Arsene, with his contacts and knowledge of Japanese football, has already made his decision on this kid. J, if you’re still reading this far down the comments, have you ever heard anything about him being on the radar? He certainly doesn’t look like he adds anything more than Ryo.
of course Traore’s defending has improved away from Arsenal
Arsenal are one of the worst clubs for any young defender to join
The defensive coaching is non existence..
Player like clichy have not improved their games, gibbs will not improve…
every game wenger and his team let the same thing happen
why did cole get better…….cole as at arsenal before wenger…….he played with better defenders and those who were influence by george grahams famous defence……..this knowledge was past on
wenger is one of the worst defesive managers in history of this game….
if you go back 20 odd years when wenger took monoco to european cup final… which they lost………..same problems with fullbacks was there then and one of reasons for the loss
Good on you mate. I can tell you’re actually a football fan who knows the game. What you say about AW and his very OBVIOUS flaw when it comes to defending and even coaching young defenders is the unadulterated TRUTH!! Still, it didn’t stop one of the many kids on this blog from giving you a ‘thumbs down’ (not that that shit matters anyway).
TJ, I can tell you’re ‘actually’ clueless, and that’s the ‘unadulterated TRUTH!!’
I gave big dave a thumbs down because while I respected his opinion I disagreed with it. I gave you a thumbs down because you just spouted off without making any arguments and tried to put other people down. Big Dave stated his opinion, made some arguments and didn’t need to start waffling on about ‘real’ football fans because he hasn’t got anything of substance to say.
I don’t usually like to quote Rafa Benitez, but ‘let’s look at the facts’:
1) Arsenal had the fourth best defensive record in the league this year behind Man U, Chelsea, and Man City. Vidic was player of the year with good reason, Man City played football so boring that they can keep whatever defensive records they might set in the future, and Chelsea always have a great defensive record, so good luck to them, they defend as a team.
2) Until the last few games of the season, when the team looked disinterested and jaded, we had the best defensive record from open play in the league.
3) Arsenal conceded the least shots per game (11) and made the most interceptions per game (19) of any team in the league.
Yes, we concede too many goals from set-pieces (56% in case you were wondering, the average is 42%) and something needs to be done about it, but blasting the entire coaching setup shows a complete lack of understanding of what constitutes defending in the modern game.
We’ve had 4 goalkeepers this season, the best of whom is still a kid who, however confident he is, cannot be expected to dominate at corners. Players take their lead from their GK at corners and free kicks in to the box and young GKs are not great at communication, its just one of those things. He’ll get there.
We’ve also had our best CB injured, one coming back from a year long injury (how many players are consistent straight after that), one who has never played in the league before, and one who has been a little disappointing. Which part of defensive coaching was to blame for these things? Defensive organisation takes time to work and shuffling around players doesn’t help. I’ve said it and I’ll say it again, something needs to change at set-pieces, but its a matter of picking the right system not venting at a coach who has overseen league titles, FA cups and an Invincibles season.
I’m happy to debate this with anyone, but please, stick to the facts.
@ methimpikehoses – I refer to akb’s as kids because they go on as though Wenger built Arsenal from the ground up and weren’t aware of the club before his arrival. They drink from the cup of Arsene no matter what! They can’t think for themselves! You can throw up as many facts as you like. I won’t counter with my own. I’m not trying to prove anything to anybody. I pity the fans who are blind as to what our problems are. You tried to say some shit about Vermaelen and how he was missing this season, hence we struggled defensively, but where are the FACTS to prove he would have made much difference? Did he he prove it against Villa or Fulham? Er, no, cos we ended up conceding 4 goals in 2 games. Didn’t we mate? Is that good enough for Arsenal mate? The fact of the matter is that the personnel doesn’t matter in Wenger’s system. It’s the defensive negligence that so badly let’s us down. Barca have a smaller team than ours but they’re coached at training at how best to deal with such things. When Spain played Germany in the World Cup, most of the talk beforehand was about how Spain would deal with Germany’s aerial advantage. A simple TACTIC (a word Wenger may have to look up again sometime in the near future) where Casillas came for absolutely EVERYTHING and plucked the ball out of the air (he isn’t even the biggest GK) saw to that threat and the rest was history. I made my comment to ‘big dave’ because i’m getting sick and tired of people being put down on the two youth blogs for daring to speak the truth! What ‘big dave’ said IS the truth, whether we as Gooners, like it or not! Don’t take my word for it though. How about this? When AFC start conceding free-kicks near our box, or corners, or throw-ins against Stoke or even free-kicks against Blackburn in THEIR own half where Robinson just launches it long into Samba and Nzonzi. When that shit happens and you DON’T get nervous about what may be coming, then, and only then, can we say we don’t have defensive problems! Ever since the famous back five left AFC, we have been susceptible to all kinds of set-pieces. Yes we dealt with them better when the Invincibles were around because that side had warriors like Vieira, Gilberto and Sol who used to head the vast, vast majority of balls into our box away. But ever since the likes of Bould, Keown and Adams retired, we have been quite poor at defending them under Wenger. That’s all the proof i need to know Arsene comes up VERY short (no pun intended) in this aspect of the game as the three aforementioned CB’s were all taught the tricks of the trade BEFORE Wenger arrived!
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