He may be out injured, but Jack Wilshere is among three Arsenal players short listed for Tuttosport’s annual ‘Golden Boy’ award – the unofficial version of FIFA’s World Player of the Year crown.
Wilshere, who finished second behind Manchester City striker Mario Balotelli last year, is joined by Gunners team-mates Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain and Lorient loanee Joel Campbell. The trio will face stern competition for the overall title though, with Eden Hazard, Mario Gotze, Xherdan Shaqiri, Thiago, and Phil Jones all expected to boast big totals.
You can cast your vote here.
VOTE WILSHERE!
Its a disgrace that Jones is winning, his positioning is AWFUL and does not deserve the award. Wilshere has played superbly last season. VOTE JACKYY BOYY!!!
He is amezing boy
Vote for Pedro !
best post here and NO one gets it
http://vimeo.com/14200208
how the hell is jones leading that poll?
Any chance of a haircut for Gervinho?
How can it be the “World Young Player of the Year” when it only includes European based players? The world young player of the year would be Neymar.
How the fuck is Jones winning this? What a stupid competition. Thiago and Jones would be on this for the 2012 list but they were not stand out players last year. The list should be much shorter and involve…..
Wilshere (Arsenal)
Hazard (Lille)
Courtois (Atletico Madrid)
Gotze (Dortmund)
Varane (Real Madrid)
Lukaku (Chelsea)
Shaqiri (Basel)
Eriksen (Ajax)
and maybe 1 or 2 more
The Man Utd fans have obviously been tweeting each other the link, what an absolute joke that would be if Phil Jones won it!
What’s the age cut-off anyhow? If Szczesny isn’t too old to be nominated then he surely should have been nominated.
The age looks to be players born after 1991 mate
That’s what I thought. Shame that, I would love to see Szczesny pick up an award like that.
Looking at the poll now, Wilshere’s shot up to 20.6% and Jones has gone down slightly to 27.2%. Quite laughable to see Hazard and Gotze on less than 10% but it’s all about which club they play for after all, not how good they actually are.
My top 5 would be Neymar, Hazard, Wilshere, Gotze and Thiago.
The list for best young players is a different list then who had the best year (2011). I would agree with your list for best young players. There are so many that I have not seen enough of to really make that call to be honest like I would want to see more of Ross Barkley, Mateo Kaovacic and Varane. There are 5 others as far as best young player that I think would be there….. Lucas (Sao Paulo), Erik Lamela (Roma), Viktor Fischer (Ajax), Soulymane Coulibaly (Tottenham) and that kid Victor Angban from the Ivory Coast u17 team. They would be in my list if I had to make one of top 25 young talents that I have seen.
Forgot Casemiro from Sao Paulo as well.
Forgot Juan Iturbe from FC Porto as well lol. There are a lot of talented footballers out there.
Joel Campbell? He’s a good talent but come on. He looks well out of place with those names.
He’s not the only one though, plenty of questionable nominations there (Pacheco?!). Campbell is certainly a bit odd. You could make a strong case for Ryo being on the list after the way he played at Feyenoord. And I don’t remember seeing his old teammate Castaignos in there either, and he surely deserves a nomination.
He is on there for his international performances. How many players star in 3 different competitions in 1 summer for their nation and come out of no where to earn a move to Arsenal then become a starter and score a couple goals for a top half french club. I mean no way should he win, but considering others on the list, he should definitely be on it.
I’m assuming it must have something to do with the fact he is a full international for a team that are currently punching well above their weight in South America. But that then would ask the question…why no Neymar, et al.
Bam….by South America I assume you meant Central America and Neymar does not play for a European club which is why he is not on this.
you can have more than 1 vote ,just come off web site and come back on and you get another vote ….come on lets make this vote as it should be
This is why I don’t think fans should be able to vote for these types of things including the Puskas Award. They can rarely be objective.
Realistically the top 4 I mentioned should be the only guys in the running to win the award.
Jack Wilshere – A full time starter for a top 4 club in England. Made the PFA team of the year and won the PFA young player of the year. Had an outstanding game in the midfield in a game that included the likes of Xavi, Fabregas, and Iniesta. He also became a first choice selection for the England National team.
Eden Hazard – Lead his team to the French league title and was named the French League’s Player of the Year. Also a Full international for Belgium.
Mario Gotze – One of the best players in the Bundesliga last year. Helped one of the most impressive title runs in all of football last year. Was 2nd in the Bundesliga in assists and added 6 goals plus started 29 league games.
Thibaut Courtois – As an 18 years old, he kept goal for the Belgian league champions which is remarkable in itself. Also considering the budget Racing Genk works with compared to Anderlecht and Standard Liege, it is simply amazing. Then he earned a huge transfer to Chelsea.
The real joke is that AOC is listed as playing for PORTSMOUTH :)
i ll bet the southampton fan wouldnt be happy
joel is talented, but has he had enough time to prove he belongs on that list, i don’t think so… wilshere 1st, 5 years ahead of his age, chambo also excellent, but not done more than wilshere…
and since when does chamberlain play in potsmouth???
wilshere on top Atm.. thank god! Only wilshere, götze, hazard, lukaku, eriksen or szczesny really would deserve to win it.. Dont even bother mentioning thiago.
I can’t believe some people, how is Phil Jones leading? No doubt he is a quality young player but what success has he really had a hand in this year? The best young players in Europe are definitely Thiago, Goetze, Hazard, Eriksen but none of them achieved what Jack Wilshere did in 2011. NONE. Eriksen & Goetze helped their clubs win the league so props to them but Jack Wilshere made 49 appearances for us last season. Played in 35 League games out of 38 in the Premier League, had a hand in helping his country qualify for Euro 2012, Helped us to the League Cup Final, Helped us earn 4th place in the Premier League and was voted MOTM in a match which had players such as Messi, Villa, Iniesta, Xavi, Fabregas, Nasri, Van Persie, was in the team of the year, won Young Player of the year AND he isn’t even 20 years old yet! For England, please vote Wilshere. P.S Honestly Joel Campbell & Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain shouldn’t even be in that list yet. @LevReynolds
@shane how come you know so many young players like that.Especially the one from ivory coast (not the one that joined spurs)
Angban played in the u17 world cup and was outstanding despite being only 14 (assuming that is his real age). I don’t know mate. I just watch a lot of football. Also whenever I hear about a young player, I try to go and find some of their matches.
Mario Gotze will win this
Not John Bostock?
No not this year but mabey next
Wilshere now 27.2% and Jones is 25%
In all honesty, the winners should be between Gotze and Hazard; both players led their teams to the championship for quite strong leagues.
Jack deserves it my top 10 young talents in d world 1Neymar 2Hazard 3Wilshere 4Gotze 5Thiago 6Eriksen 7Shaqiri 8Szcseny 9Jones 10Curtois
Future of arsenal:
Gk:sczcesny,mannone,Shea
Cb:vermaelen,mertersacker,koscielny,Bartley,miquel
Rb:sagna,jenkinson
Lb:Gibbs,santos
Dm:song,coquelin,frimpong
Cm:Ramsey,wilshere,Lansbury,aneke,ozyakup(replacing arshavin,arteta,rosicky as age 30++)
Wf:gervinho,Walcott,chamberlain,miyachi
Cf:van persie,Campbell,afobe
It will never be that simple mate, as we have seen time and time again.
Arsenal’s carling cup team that smashed Sheffield United in 2008.
GK – Fabianski – Still here but can’t see him being here for long
RB – Hoyte – Not even sure if he is still here or not
CB- Djurou
CB- Song – not a CB anymore
LB – Gibbs – can’t stay healthy to save his life
RM – Wilshere – Plays a holding mid role now
CM – Randall – not here
CM – Ramsey
LM – Merida – not here
ST – Vela – Doesn’t look like he will play here
ST – Bendtner – Said he never wants to come back to Arsenal
We also don’t play a 4-4-2 anymore.
For a number of those youngsters it’s too early to say whether they’ll become part of the first team picture. Once upon a time Eastmond and JET looked like they’d become future Arsenal regulars.
Although I have to say, Shane’s example isn’t the best because we got a tremendous amount of talent from that ’08 CC side; that’s been one of our best crops. Four of them are now 1st team starters when fit (Gibbs, Song, Jack, Ramsey), another two (Fabianski and Djourou) held down a first team place for part of last season and are good squad players for us. Randall and Merida were the only real flops from that side, nothing much was ever expected from Hoyte anyway. Bendtner and Vela have the talent and they’ve always been around the first team but things haven’t quite gone their way. On the whole we’ve done very well out of that lot.
No Wrenny, it was a perfect example because even on probably our best crop of young talents barely half of them are playing for us and several are back ups. The point simply was that you can’t expect all of the current crop of players here to be here in 4 years.
Hmmmm no, to be more accurate the point was that fans ought to be weary of expecting all our talented young players to fulfil the high expectations foisted upon them because that’s incredibly unlikely to happen. And I agree with that point 100%.
But the Carling Cup XI you’ve posted includes a lot more youngsters who have met those expectations, in some cases have even exceeded expectations (Alex Song a shining example, Fabianski and Djourou have also proved many wrong); than youngsters who have come up very short of our expectations – only Merida and Randall have fallen seriously short in my opinion.
Better examples to back up that point would be the likes of Senderos (next Tony Adams!), Denilson, Bentley (next Beckham!), Pennant, Jeffers (our fox in the box!), JET (already better than Theo!), to name a few.
Man, football is getting embarrassing. There is even a worse list than this youngster list. The Ballon D’or 23 man short list. How in the world did Abidal make it? Also Karim Benzema over Falcao…WTF? Sometimes I feel these things are a joke. They just give the awards to teams instead of individual players.
yup, seven barca girls, including abidal, not van persie nor falcao. Wilshere and Vermaelen could have been included, if the were fit.. Noo corruption..
Yah, not sure if Wilshere was even close in my eyes but who knows how the first half of the season would have gone and Vermaelen is a moot point because he did not play at all really
How on earth Schennikov is leading the vote? Is he really good? Where is gunners fan? Come on vote for Wilshere!
Phil Jones? He’s talented but not in the class of the others on the list. He’s there most likely on the strength of his club’s rep, not the quality of his play.
I mean its funny because Phil Jones plays for Man Utd everyone says the kid is not that talented. Its amazing… I dare you name another upcoming defender that can play anywhere on the back 4 or even as a DM and has the range to deliver accurate crosses….. the speed and technique to play box to box. Im sorry but he is a stud. There is a reason wenger went for him and a reason he went for the type of money he went for to Man Utd. So called i watch soccer folks would know if they really watch soccer. He is first choice for Man Utd (God i hate mentioning this team) and with ample reason. The player that im sure we would have benefited tremendously from and i am very disappointed that we didnt get him was christian Eriksen…. I’m actually suprised he did not make this so called list. I follow ajax football when i can and i wont claim to watch the whole world but from what i have seen from this kid. I think the comparisons to bergkamp in his prime are not far fetched. Please watch him play. That killer pass that we look for??? look no further, the kid is the real deal. Ajax would not let him go though they are finally playing great football again and could qualify to the next round of the CL. This list however was a pile of steaming hot s*** and i am disappointed but what do you expect if FIFA members take bribes? its a trickle down effect…. all these awards and ish would be totally garbage.
OK, but do you think Phil Jones deserves the award ahead of Hazard, Gotze, Wilshere, Eriksen, and others?
Because that’s what most people were shocked by; the fact that Jones was leading the poll and, at the time, looked like he might go on to win it ahead of far more deserving players.
Of course Phil Jones is a top talent. That is not what the poll is for though which is our point. The poll is for what young player had the best year in 2011. That is clearly not Phil Jones.
On Eriksen, he had a good year but no way was he better than the 4 players I mentioned above. Eriksen was not even the best player in Holland so he can’t win an award over the best player in France or 3 players who were the best in their positions in there respective leagues. He is a talented kid and definitely one I am looking to see how he does this year.
I feel RVP got the shaft. That was really messed up, as well as falcao but to say wilshere and vermalen for the Ballon D’Or???? come on…. the list they have now is ridiculous tho… i killed over laughing at some of the names. Abidal is on the bench for half the games and made it. anyway who cares? they are going to turn around and put it in Messi’s lap again anyways.
I forgot to mention RVP. To be honest they should just switch it to the european football year. For the calendar year he has been amazing. My top 3 would have been Messi, Ronaldo and Falcao.
That list is a joke as of now.
@wrenny
i wouldnt jump off a cliff if he won but i would of course not say he would be my number one choice right now. Actually i would pick Goetze based on Achievements alone but i tell you this if he was playing for Man Utd last year he would have been a viable candidate because i had been talking about him when the rumor first broke. He is a very very good defender and personally i wonder why defensive players outside of thuram, R.carlos and cannavaro never get shouts for the big shouts except honorable mentions, like the maldinis the stams the franco baressis and i can go further back. I think he is a gem of a player but you know this is just a blog we all have different opinions.
^^^^^^UNFINISHED THOUGHT^^^^^^^^^ i meant i had been talking about phil jones as a polished player when the rumor first broke that we were tryna get him. I had watched a lot of epl games and he really stood out for blackburn and countless times saved sambas butt…. lol. Anyway long story short i wish we had him… we would have had the best rotation in the EPL. Imaging Jones, Verm, DJ and Kos???? ok snap back to reality…
I would have loved Jones but you knew we were never going to go anywhere near or transfer record. All that talk about having money and spending big to get top talent was shown to be a joke. Lets just thank god we picked up AOC out of all that.
On you defenders never getting credit thing. I completely agree. The same can be said for defensive midfielders. Vidic should have won the PFA defensive player of the year last year. Maicon should have been in the top 3 for Fifa player of the year the time they won the european championsip. Michael Essien should have gotten for more credit then he has.
@Shane
I never said that christian eriksen was better than the 4 you mentioned. I only said i wished we got him when we had the chance to because i think he has blossomed to become a very good player. his stats dont show it but he is pretty decent and i felt wenger would have turned him into a gem. Out of the four you mentioned i would take Gotze anyday. I just love watching him play. Wilshere and Hazard a tie for second…. Their scoring and assist rates are not all that impressive but they are very young anyway.
Thats how I always feel about Arsenal. We should snap up all the talent we know about. Think about how many players we were close to signing early on that went on to be big expensive players.
@shane
Oh yea at the maicon thingy…. you are right i think that he should have been in the top 3 as well he is one of my favorite right backs ever…. i think he could play on the wings and be completely at home as well and got a hell of a striking boot.
soccer is getting ridiculous…. 19 year old neymer has not won anything major and played only in the brazilian league goes to Real Madrid for 53 million pounds. Really? at least cr7 had to earn his stripes…. i say this this financial fair play rule is too vague…. this would continue to go on over and over and over…. well you get the point.
Who said you have to win anything to prove that you are a good player? Every club in the world wanted Neymar. And that alone will make him worth a shit load of money. And he have prove what a player he is from all his games he is playing. How many 18-19 year old do you think can get a call up by the brazilian national team and the gets to play a lot of minutes? He has been absolutely top class when he’s on the pitch.
And should I remind you that this guy is for the future of the club? He is one of those players that can score from nothing and win you games when it matters and then you will end up having a trophy. If everything goes well Madrid will not need to buy anything big for a couple of years.
Again every club in the world wanted to have this guy. Every top class club including Arsenal wanted him. The price is huge but the top class clubs are doing what it takes to secure their position.
Me on the other-hand thinks the prices of smartphones the last 3 years has been really ridiculous but people are buying it anyway no matter if they afford it.
You picked the wrong player to prove your point. Neymar hasn’t won anything major?….cough cough Copa Libertadores. Neymar is a sick player and trust me, he is one that is definitely worth his price tag.
@shane
Really? you want to hang your hat on copa libertadores? Lol how awesome…. ok he is one for the future we can all agree with that but 53 million pounds? you guys are the reason why players are ridiculously over bought and over paid. So you are telling me that CR7 should have been bought from portugal by man utd for 53 mil? what a joke. He is a good player but if the Neymar today is worth 53 million i am not buying period. He is a good player with room for development and that is contingent not only on talent but focus and a will to learn. You cannot pay over the odds for what he would become. Thank God you guys do not own teams because they would be bankrupt before they even kick the ball. I would gladly pay 25mil for him because i am very aware of just how talented he is but 1 mil a month for a 19 year old? truth is the buzz he is getting is very similar to ronaldinho’s. He transferred to PSG for 14 million dollars guys. Not saying that they are the same player. The deal comes up to 150 million pounds!!! Again Jom and Shane you guys need to read. No one ever said he is not a great player. 10 goals in 18 games this season and 18 last as well as the year before that, I am well aware of Neymars I am questioning the amount of money and honestly if you guys do not think it is ridiculous for someone who has not played in what i call a top league or won any cup of repute then i cant even continue the conversation.
First off relax, mate. Secondly you are really going to play down one of the biggest and most historic club competitions in all of football. Now to address the rest of your ridiculous comment.
Who says what prices are right and wrong? Fact is if you want the player you are going to have to pay more than other clubs are willing to pay.
From an Arsenal point – Yes, you can take the Arsenal route and settle which there is no question that we did that this transfer window. This is where I think our club sounds like hypocrites. We complain about player prices, but we have no problem selling our players for way more than they should be worth yet then we moan when other teams charge a lot for their players. I mean we got 25 million pounds for a player in the last year of his contract. Now we can sit around and hope that we pull off some massive bargain buys like we have done in the past but that is getting harder and harder because scouting is easier than ever thanks to all the media outlets. I can sit on my coach and watch things like the u17 south american championships. Lets see, if I asked you how much you would sell Wilshere for, what would you tell me?
Your Ronaldo comparison – Ronaldo had not even played a ton of first team games and he did not come with any where near the hype straight from Sporting Lisbon or the resume of Neymar.
Neymar is clearly one of the most sought after young talents in recent history and he has done more by 19 than all but a very small list of players have ever done. You can just watch him and see the obvious talent and quality so he is as sure of a buy as you can get. Your stupid comment about you being glad that I am not in charge of a club because I would make them bankrupt. Obviously you would only buy a player of Neymar’s expense is you could afford him. If I was Real Madrid, Barcelona, Manchester City, Chelsea, PSG or any other club with the resources to buy him then I would have immediately. He is that good. Same way when I first saw Messi at 17 in the u20 world cup. He was that good.
Another thing you fail to take into consideration is the marketing aspect of the deal. Do you even realize how much money they will make of simply selling jerseys alone?
Lets put it this way, if I was Barcelona, I would have rather bought Neymar at 52 million than Ibrahimovic, Villa (at the age they bought him) and Alexis Sanchez combined. For Real Madrid, I would have definitely rather spent the money on Neymar than Benzema and Di Maria. That is just my opinion, but we will see in the next few years who was right or not.
PS, I am in no way defending the crazy prices of football. Just speaking from the reality of the situation and if you want Neymar you have to pay more than other people will.
^^^^^^ Im sorry Jom or Shane if i came off disrespectful in anyway i was just a bit taken aback.
If I gave you 50 million pounds and said do you want to spend it on Messi at 17 (or 19) what would you have told me? Would you have been right or not now?
In response to your condescending answer or question as the case may be. Who said spending 50 million you dont have for a player is wrong? I think thats what the financial fair play rule is for. To address the rest of your laughable answer which clearly shows you cant follow a line of thought except your own, I am still stating that the copa libertadores is a shadow of its former self. It is obviously clear you dont watch soccer much although you claim to be alpha and omega of all things soccer. Follow the line of thought…. we are not talking about the most pretigious or oldest cup or tourney. We are talking about if it holds a candle to fighting for the EPL, Spanish liga, Bundesliga, Europa or Champions league. I am willing to go as far as throwing in the FA cup and the Spanish FA cups. Secondly I said the hype following Ronaldinho not Ronaldo…. again follow the conversation. It obviously clear that you really are stupid because 2 of the clubs you mentioned are bankrupt and under the Fifa fair financial rule they cannot be supplemented by their states. I hope your smart enough to figure out the teams i am talking about from where i’m standing you seem to be the dumber of two of us. I am deliberately calling you names because when you respond to people you do so with some respect. Seeing as i did not call you names in my initial comment. I digress. Again the question here is about personal opinion as i stated earlier i have no problem with your point of view my gripe if you follow all my posts is that you are so engrossed in yourself and you dont read. To answer your question…. with your example with signing Messi for that much, the question is was messi signed for that much? No he was signed for nothing. He sure had the same hype didnt he? I mean you said the same thing didnt you. There are ways to conduct business even in the midst of massive fan fare. there are more examples. The facts are the facts… signing neymar opens a flood gate of ridiculous signings… I am a soccer fan before an arsenal fan and your despicable attempt to fit me into your useless box as an arsenal fanis another display of your pig headed attempt to stroke your ego when the truth is you dont know your soccer do you? This is a very negative precedent in soccer. Arsenal fan or no arsenal fan…. that is all i am trying to say. C’est fini.
When did I insult you? Watch your mouth kid. If you look back on the conversation you were the first one to respond in a rude way lol.
You brought up Ronaldo and Ronaldinho in you comment. You said, “So you are telling me that CR7 should have been bought from portugal by man utd for 53 mil?” That is literally your own comment lol.
As for the copa libertadoras, you don’t consider it big because you don’t know the players yet because they are not big names in europe. Think about this logically. The majority of big name south american players that currently play in europe, played in South America at one point.
On your next comment about Barcelona and Real Madrid, what kind of retarded world are you living in? Both clubs have been run the same way for years and both bring in a ton of revenue. There is no way you can tell me that you know exactly how debt works in football. Hell Arsenal are in debt. Man utd, Barcelona and Real Madrid are all in debt but they still spend a lot on transfers. Your fantasy of what should happen and the reality of what does happen seems to be a little mixed up. As for the financial fair play, Wenger has come out and said he doubts it even will work. You already see Man City finding ways around it and the only thing I have heard about it is that you can’t spend more than you bring in which Real Madrid bring in more than any club.
On Messi, amazingly you could not answer a simple question which was…. When you first saw Messi at 17 (or 19) would have payed 50 million if you had the chance. Obviously assuming YOU WERE NOT BARCELONA which should have been obvious. Yes, Messi as a teenager was pretty close to what Neymar is. Do I think Neymar will reach Messi’s current heights? Probably not but I am willing to bet that Neymar reaches the 3rd best player in the world heights at least.
And how are you still not understanding this? I am in no way say that I believe teenage footballers or any footballer should cost what they do. I am just speaking from reality here which you seem to not understand. The fact is that they do and if you want the player and to win trophies, you can’t sit around and moan about it because it is a fact. The question is where do you value this player compared to others you could get for around that price. That was my whole point about Neymar rather than Di Maria and Benzema.
By the way, why is me answering your points, me being self indulged? lol. I just respond to each of your points. Cheers tho mate.
messi at 17 was already at barca and honestly to compare neymar to messi at that age??? really? Neymar was as good as messi? now that i would wait to see … and even when messi was destroying the lower league with barca B…. he was not being paid 1 mil a month…. people forget these are kids for Gods sake… you are already paying him 250k a week… more than 99 percent of the league? I wouldnt even continue this convo. You’re the smart one obviously you have made that clear. i’m happy you feel that every 19 year old with superstar talent should be paid that much and sold for that much. I have not seen ANY sport where that has happened.
First off I want to see real proof that Neymar actually went to madrid for that amount.
Then I want to know how many 19 year old can you find that is top class and could come in for pretty much any first team and being good. Neymar has prove his worth for Brazil and he does not look out of pace whats so ever. You only see his age and how inexperience he is. You don’t look at what he is doing.
He is no doubt a world beater and in a team like Madrid or Barca thats fits his style perfectly little can go wrong. His attitude is top class as well and he really works hard for the team he is playing for. His name will generate 20 millions back immediately just watch and see. Everyone likes him. He is not ignorant like Ronaldo is. He is humble like Messi.
If I’m gonna compare him to Hazard who I think comes closes to him I would take Neymar any day. Neymar has got vision, speed, great technical ability and a real clever player. That with his personality is a big big plus. If Bechham could generate 1 billion back for Madrid for the time he was there, Neymar could be too easiy as he is much more easily to like and watch.
Exactly Jom. Neymar is such a low risk purchase for a Barcelona or Real Madrid. He already plays the link up and move game perfectly. He can beat players off the dribble and he is a top class finisher. Strength is the only question mark on his game which is why he would be a riskier purchase for an English club but in a Barcelona team, it won’t matter. Like you said too, a lot if not all of his fee will probably be made up through marketing anyways.
I also agree about Hazard. Even though I am a massive Hazard fan, but he is not even near what Neymar is right now. I just don’t see how people can not see such obvious class.
Shane
Yeah I am a massive Hazard fan too but it is too obvious to see what a player Neymar is. I had my doubts before I saw him play but after the first match with him I have no more doubts.
The scary thing is he was even smaller back then. He is much stronger today. and much more experience. His link up play is really extremely good.
Madrid can’t get Neymar and Hazard the same time so we will be competing with Barca really hard for him. The worse possible thing though is if Barca gets Neymar and Madrid gets Hazard. Or the other way around… that would sucks. But Barca seems o have found a winger already.. Cuenca? Finger crossed for Goetze or Hazard in the summer.
Those clubs are never shy of upgrading though so Cuenca (I have not seen him play yet to be honest) would not stop them from buying. Personally I think if Neymar ends up at Barcelona then it would put a rap on the next 6 to 8 years of football. We already gave them the best center mid for the next 10 years and they had Thiago come through. Messi with Neymar now would just be scary. I think they could put up close to 90 goals a year together. Hazard is a great talent but yet really to reach that dominate kind of bracket where you just expect a goal from him. Still a joy to watch play. I would love any one of this little bunch of young talents at Arsenal but it looks unlikely.
@shane
Ok internet gangster i would watch my mouth….lmao. You’re a joke. Bet your some scrawny kid with a lot of guts in front of a computer screen. Again like i said the Copa libertadores has lost its flavor for a lot of reasons…. match fixing scandals, the strength of the teams that play and the publicity as well period. On your point about most south american players in the league once played there, it really shows you know NOTHING about Copa libertadores. Do you know how many league teams there are in south america? Again you seem to know it all huh? stating that i dont know any of the players in south america. Ok mate you are the smart one. i hope that helped your sandwich go down smoother…. lol. try answering questions without making an opinion on people. it looks better on you… in every team there might be one stand out star in some cases none because the talent is diluted, teams like santos, velez, river and a few others are the only teams capable of assembling more than one star per team. the competition is not as stiff as a result. these are all facts. Secondly, Jom, i understand your point and i see your logic about him being a world beater. I believe neymar is heads and shoulder better than most 19-21 year olds in the world of soccer. I am just saying it sets a dangerous path and lower league teams would suffer for it that is all i am trying to say. These lower league teams that scour the streets and schools for talent cannot compete with a real madrid or barca e.t.c. However if they find them first it becomes a windfall for that team. if you have noticed bidding for 19 year olds is becoming really intense with the lukakus, the neymars and so on and so forth. My gripe is this is not good for football period. It is a strong deviation from playing your way into a big contract and these kids that are nowhere near the level of neymar would start deciding they want a quarter million a week. I have not undermined Neymars talent in ANY of my posts as tough guy shane would let you believe. I just feel we are treading dangerous waters. Neymar is a stud. you know what? If Real hasnt really signed him for 50 mil, you can watch that price go higher and higher. Your example with beckham…. lets not forget beckham was a FRANCHISE all on his own before coming to real madrid, i mean he had more commerical power than CR7 or messi. I am not saying this because he is english but because he had more jersey sales in his first year in real than anyone in the history of real till date. So lets compare apples to apples not oranges. I have a peaceful disagreement with you JOM, its more than i can say for some internet assassins lmao!!!!!
Oh and by the way shane i went and looked and i wasnt rude to you guys i simply stated you were not reading my statements right and answering completely off point. If that bruised your ego, im really sorry i would try to massage it next time. Cheers mate.
6’3 and 220 pounds, hardly scrawny and as I said, you are the one that started in with the attitude for no reason. I have yet to insult you like you have clearly been attempting to do. I have just responded to your points. Sorry if I came off any other way. Thank god no body follows these articles after the first couple days because we are clogging it up. Now I will do again as always and respond to your points and not insult you in any ways.
Max scandals? Yah like Europe never has any of those…cough cough Italy, Turkey, the whole Wayne Rooney family situation. The strength of the teams was addressed already. You don’t know the players yet so you determine them to be weak but in a couple year when they are big names in europe, you will claim they are great. Publicity, It is pretty big in South America lol. Not sure what your point was about how many teams play in South America.
Then you go on to say he is head and shoulders above all the other 19 to 21 year old which goes against your whole argument. You are a confusing man, mate. That would mean you think Neymar should cost more than all the other 19 to 21 year olds which is the case. If your argument is simply that all players are over priced now days, then of course we all know and agree. I just need to know what your argument is pointed at. If it is in the current market Neymar is over priced then that would be wrong.
The “dangerous path” has already been set mate. Real Madrid really got the ball rolling with paying huge for the biggest players in the world but Chelsea really started this over spending on players that were not yet the best in the world. Players like Shaun Wright Phillips for 21 million. Now Man City have been even worse. They just through around money like it is nothing.
You failed to make your point that I see in your last comment. You were speaking of Neymar as if you felt he was not good enough to warrant the interest. Please go read over your comments and you will see that.
To you end point. My first comment was simply that I though Neymar was the real deal and if I had the money, I would take him. Then you started in straight off attacking us lol. Seriously mate, the comments are just above. Even worse now understanding you over all point in which you feel players are over priced which I would agree in general, my comment still fit the criteria. I said, I just felt you chose the wrong player because Neymar is the real deal. If you would have chosen Andy Carroll then I would have agreed.
After all of this which somewhat turned out to be a misunderstanding, I have still yet to personally insult you which seems to be half of your comment lol. Cheers though mate.
when you read about verbal agreement you should immediately know thats spanish taping up technics to unsettle the player they are after.good thing you are not allowed to pay deposit in football deal otherwise slimy spanish will claim they already paid, if of course he doesn’t have any spanish dna.
nope neymar is still santos player
I also agree that young players prices is too stupid now a days. We wanted to buy Goetze for 40M and hazard for 35+M. I think those prices are ridiculous. But the thing is I would rather spend big for one or 2 player and then close the bank for 2 season. Thats what Arsenal would do.
As long as you can afford it who can blame you? In Neymars case i think he is worth 30M easily. Quality is what matter and he got it. Only one who can stop this price tapping is FIFA and Uefa. I can imagine they won’t care. Football is corrupt.
Thats my thing. When you constantly sell players for profit and you sell 2 of your best 3 players for 25+ million than what is wrong with bringing in 1 big signing?
@Jom
Spending big on one player is fine and dandy if you get your money’s worth. If you end up with the next £50m mega-flop like Kaka or Torres it doesn’t look so clever.
If you’re Real Madrid or Chelsea or Man City then it’s not a problem, you just take another fortune out of your bottomless pit of money and replace that flop. But if you’re Arsenal what happens?
That’s why we stay away from the hyped-up youngsters with enormous price tags and leave the petroclubs to fight for them. We could feasibly push the boat out to get a Hazard or Gotze, but I find it highly unlikely we will. Lesser known talents like Marco Reus or Marvin Martin are far more realistic, and a more sensible way to spend our funds.
So out of that 60 million brought in for those 2 star players, you don’t think 35 on a guy like Falcao would have been great? Plus no boxy is asking us to spend money we don’t have. Just when we cash in big, it is ok to put some of that money back in the squad. Also, yes at some point you have to gamble something to compete for trophies. To be honest, normally I don’t care if we make a big name signing. I love when Wenger and his scouting team spots a talent that was not on our radar and brings him in. This year that did not happen. Don’t know if Wenger was just not ready and truly thought Fabregas and Nasri were staying or what. Anyways, oh well, the summer is over and nothing we can do about it now. Just hold out hope for January.
Neymar is a terrific player, however for Madrid he represents a marquee signing. His value is so high, because than his footballistic value, he means more news coverage, more hype, more blogs and therefore better value for TV deal.
Forget the idea that the T-Shirts will pay for his salary. TV and sponspor deals are were the real money is. That is why they pay the extra money.
Barcelona and Real Madrid have their own TV deals which means that they have to have stars even if the star does not really contribute to the football play.
A couple of years ago, Barcelona had their best season ever as they won every competition they entered. They should have been at the front of every papers, TVs and blogs. They were not. Real Madrid were
What happen? Real Madrid made a marquee signing which meant that Barcelona were blown out of the news. They bought Christiano Ronaldo then suddenly the TV deal whose negotiation was not going as well as they wanted went superdrive. The money on offer went massively higher. Middle-East and Far East countries broadcaster were fighting to buy their matches.
The stupidest thing of that marquee signing strategy is that it drives price higher. The higher the price, the more people buy into the idea that they are buying an extraordinary product. The same way some luxury brand are able to sell goods that they manufacture in China or Turkey with cheap labour. The reasoning is that if he is in a price of his own, then he must be in a class of his own, which IMHO is not the case. He is one of the best 19 years old but he is nowhere near the overall qualities of a player like Ronaldo or Messi.
That is when a player needs to prudent and better manage his career. If you joing for the money or the hype without checking who will be in charge of the club you may end up with nothing. Beckham joined Real Madrid and left after growing disillusionned.
In order to sustain itself, marquee signing strategy require a marquee signing every year (or at least every year prior to the renegotiation of the deal) just to keep the hype high.
The question is then what happen to the previous period marquee signing. You have to ditch them or let them languishing in your reserve unless they are so good on the pitch you cannot do without them or sell so many T-shirts just a cameo is required.
The problem with Neymar is that he may be a marquee signing is that he is already a marquee signing in Brazil.
When he arrive in Europe he will have to adjust to a completely different environment, different settings but with the weight of the expectations.
However at Real Madrid or Barcelona he is unlikely to be offered the time to adjust. With quality players already present he may not make it there and then what?
Look at what happen to Kaka, he was a marquee signing and now he is coming back but if Madrid buy Neymar he will have to leave. You cannot have a team with Ronaldo, Neymar, Ozil, Di Maria, Higuain, Benzema, Kaka. If he leaves where will he go? Only somewhere down. From his perspective, his contract at Real Madrid would have been a complete waste of time if not money.
From a football perspective you cannot play them all together. From a human point of view managing the ego of all those players will test the patience of even a saint.
Some very good points mate. It is true that TV is where a lot of the money is at. Disagree with some of your points though. Kaka was just a bad buy in general. They were buying a pace player late on in his career very similar to Henry at Barcelona (except kaka cost a whole lot more). These players often fall off quicker because when the pace goes, if they can not adapt then they are not the same player.
Where Neymar will slot in is in the place of Di Maria (who was a bad buy in my opinion). You are right though in the majority of your comment. It is a rotating door and unless you stand out way above the others like a Ronaldo then your time will be cut short there. Robinho came off his best season there and then they looked to swap him and cash for Ronaldo. Robben and Sneijder are other examples. Personally I believe Neymar is on another level and will be fine. The pressure already on the kids shoulders is unbelievable and he has handled it perfectly. At the end of the day is it the healthiest situation possible? No, he would probably be better off joining Ajax or a french club first but that is not how the system works anymore. You go straight from a super hyped wonderkid to the biggest team possible and then should you not succeed, you move down. Then again these footballers get payed a whole lot of money so is it really that bad?
This situation will only get worse because all players are known about as soon as they kick a ball thanks to the media outlets no days. I mean the whole world already knows about a 16 year old peruvian who has only played like 14 games (Andy Polo) so how can you expect that kid to develop properly when given so much attention for almost nothing.
Last thought, this brings me to the whole youth tournaments and how in lots of ways, I don’t think they are good for football at all. 14-20 year olds don’t need that kind of exposure. Let them grow up through their local clubs and should a kid be so great that his name gets out then fine but no need to put the crown on kids when it shouldn’t be. The only benefit that sways my thought is the African kids and other poor countries players that don’t get the same benefits that others do so the youth tournaments are great in that 1 aspect.
Here is a good example. Carlos Vela made his name in the youth world cup and has all the talent in the world. Made his big move and looked destined to be Mexico’s next big thing. He has his attitude/work rate issues and he has not panned out. Then you get a kid from the exact same club and pretty much the same age and he doesn’t make this youth team. He has to work his way up through his club set up and finally turns into a star for his club and is now the player that is the main man for Mexico and a big player at Manchester United. He does not have half the talent of the prima donna, but he has gained the work ethic to succeed.
Di Maria has actually scored some important goals for Real Madrid in his career…he isn’t on the same level as Neymar or Ronaldo or Ozil though, so you are right about that. He can score from the wing though which is a valuable asset to have. His price-tag though was waaaaaaaaaaaay too expensive for a back-up or squad player, but it’s Real Madrid, so who cares???:D I just hope that we can pick up a marquee, young signing ourselves, like a Hazard, a Gotze, an Eriksson or especially Stevan Jovetic!!!:D Man I love how that guy plays football!!!:D
Di maria is a very very good player. If you look up the stats he is the same level as Özil. He is making assist which is almost as important. Also playing a lot for Real. Anyway… yeah if we get Göetze, Hazard or Eriksson I will be very happy.
Its something about Artetas play I don’t like a lot. Wilshere and Ramsey are the preferred one. and it really worries me that we now have to keep Arteta in the midfield for years. Eriksson would slot in perfectly. I heard he wants to go to La liga though. In either Ramsey or Arteta is injured we have to stick with Rocisky and he is really bad in the midfield.. Wilshere wont come back soon so I think a buy is very likely in January.
Most players will put up stats for Real Madrid especially in this current team. They are often so much better than their opponents. In big games to me he just doesn’t look the same level as his team mates. This is definitely one of those every has players they just don’t think are that good and for me, Di Maria is one of them. If I had Real Madrid money, he would be the first person I would replace.
On Eriksen, I don’t know mate. I know he has some talent don’t get me wrong because he shows flash of skill but in most games I watch, he never really does anything. Gives the ball away a lot too. On current ability he is much lower than the other bunch of young guns. I even like what I see from Kevin De Bruyne more than him. We will see though. I really can’t wait to see Viktor Fischer start playing at Ajax.
On Arteta, while I believe he is not the star studded signing we hoped for, I think he is a good addition. He is tidy on the ball and rarely gives it away. He does his defensive work well. He is a good passer and has a good shot when in goal scoring areas and he has a good free kick.
I agree that Neymar is a better player than Di Maria, but for me Di Maria is more efficient.
He slot in the Real Madrid team seamlessly and he creates a lot of goal for others. He has transformed himself from the showy quite selfish kid who arrived into a team player who most the time follows the manager instruction. That Real Madrid works because everybody press the opposition to retrieve quickly the ball and score. Even Ronaldo is helping to defend.
I am not convinced that Neymar can and will do that conversion. He had been the centre of attention and team for the last couple of years. Even when he play for Brazil he already see himself as top dog. If he does not make that conversion he will be in direct competition with Ronaldo and I can see only one winner in that confrontation.
Regarding Arteta, I am not convinced either. However what he brought is tactical awareness, discipline and in my view the most important work ethic. That work ethic is starting to rub off on others players such as Walcott and Gervinho. Arsene Wenger recently commented on the fact that Walcott had to be teached to help the defending.
Getting rid of Nasri may not have been a bad thing. I think that toward the end Nasri was jealous of the leeway given to Arshavin and stopped playing for the team. “Why should I track back if Arshavin is allowed not to track back.”
Now that Arshavin has been reduced to the role of impact player and luxury sub, the automatic choice players have no justification of not putting a full shift. I also think that having player who are happy to be here make a whole of difference. Arteta took a pay cut to come, when Nasri left for a pay rise and a place on the sub bench. The whole dynamic of the team has changed.
I still look forward to Wilshere return because I believe that his directness and forward passes will make Arsenal even more potent. Right now it looks like they are playing in second gear, when with Jack Wilshere I can see them playing full throttle forward.
You wrote my thought most of the time. I still think Neymar could do a really good job though. Neymar is such a dynamic and versatile player so he is able to play in all the attacking position and also in the wings and even as a second striker. But we will have to wait and see.
When Wilshere is back that is when we see the real world class midfield we have. Arteta is good but he is not world class. I do agree most of the thing you say though. Arshavin and Rocisky will be gone in the summer for sure. Hopefully Ozyacup or Aneke take their chances.
He played with Robinho who is huge in Brazil and had no problem so I don’t see your point mate. Neymar works hard and puts up far better stats.
wow jom! summer?
i wish they are going this january, those few minutes they are getting on the pitch could be given to our young players. its crazy to still thinking arsavin and rosicky are good for arsenal.
I want Arshavin out this Jan too but thats not gonna happen. Chamberlain needs this whole season to develop to a real class player and he is slowly getting there. Rosocky is still good to have when our legs are tire and we need to close some games. But they are both nothing special anymore. If we get the right amount of money for Arshavin then we might sell him but the team must show we don’t need him on the team anymore. Christmas matches will be very decisive for us. We most likely need all our squad players to be involve a lot more. And I am sure Chamberlain will be huge for us around February. Towards the end Arshavin and Rosicky will be less involve and that will signal that they will have to move on. Hopefully one local lads surprise us all and and do a Wilshere. Thinking about Watt, Eastmond, Aneke or Ozyacup.
Arteta is an interesting one as he seems to start games very slowy, but grows more and more into them as they go on. He also has a habit of giving away needess and pointless free-kicks in dangerous areas. Both of these things could be attributed to his adapting to the pace and style of our team and if given a litte time he may well come good. As for the value of transfer fees/player wages it is simply a case of supply and demand, with players and their clubs able to request higher fees based on the vastly increased resources available to clubs. It’s capitalism at it’s best or worst (depending on your particuar political peruasion) as although it’s easy to say that we didn’t have these “crazy” transfer fees and wages years ago, we also did not have clubs valued at billions of pounds. Pretty much every area of life and business has seen a huge level of infation over the past coupe of decades, and football is no different.
Oh, and am I the only one who has been somewhat impressed by Rosicky this season? Granted he’s no world beater, but he’s had a few solid performances, with his tackling in particular being vastly improved. Not a starter granted, but very good to have on the bench, and looking more and more like the type of squad player top clubs like our’s need over the course of a 50+ game season.
Every time Rosicky and Arshavin come on my first thought is “WTF”. That can’t be a good thing lol. Really just want to see AOC get some real time.
Hey, I’m surprised no one has agreed with me about us getting Stevan Jovetic. I’ve watched this player for close to 3 years and every time I see him I say to myself that he is the one who could replace Robin Van Persie if he leaves or retires early!!! He might be expensive, but he is a top, top class talent!!! And no OnlyOneRvP, I was probably the first one on here defending Rosicky, so you aren’t the only one who has been impressed by him this year. Arshavin hasn’t played well in the league at all this year. Even the Swansea match where he scored, he didn’t play particularly well. But yeah the players whom I would really, really, like this transfer window are Jovetic and then a toss up between Hazard and Gotze. In that order with Jovetic being the priority!!!
I have not seen much of him. He always seems to be injured when I want to watch him. Didn’t he just sign a new contract too?
If I’m not mistaken Jovetic very recently signed a new contract with Viola following reorted interest from Chelski, he won’t be moving any time soon apart from for silly money, which we won’t spend.
I find it funny when someone gives me a thumbs down for the hell of it lol. My comment was not even an opinion
off topic!
has anybody been to wellington’s twitter?
the boy is distress, i wish arsene could do something about it. this boy is better than all man utd brazilians put together he surely deserves a special talent visa. had he stayed in brazil with flu maybe he could have gain some caps to help his situation. if his attitude they are blaming i am sure he’s not worse than balotelli.maybe he’s not as mentally strong as botelho to play there for many years.
i wish we could try again in january maybe this time we will be successful.
here is what he’s been saying on twitter
http://twitter.com/#!/wsilva11
I am so lost on this situation. We here about his attitude but then you translate hi word from twitter and it is like a bible class.
Hahahahahaha, yeah I was thinking the same thing Shane. I don’t know what we will do with Wellington now. Eventually his talent will wane if he doesn’t play enough. It doesn’t matter what you do, if you have a talent and you do not get the chance or do not want to hone it, it will wane or even disappear. But everyone knows that…about Jovetic, I have seen him play around 15 matches throughout his time with Fiorentina and I have been very, very impressed. To me, he might not be an out and out strker, but Van Persie doesn’t always operate as one either. Jovetic is what Italians like to call a “fantasista” or someone who can create fantasy like play on the pitch. He can create goals as well as score them. I love Fiorentina so if we get him I don’t want it to be on the cheap, and as you rightly pointed out he HAS just signed a new contract, so he won’t come cheap. But he would be well worth the money we spent on him. I don’t really think we will get him really, but I really like how he plays and he could be a viable option to the Van Persie contract situation as well as cover for any injuries we get. I believe the Gotze and Hazard rumours more than I do the Jovetic rumours to be completely honest. Everyone has a player they would like Arsenal to sign, so I’ll chalk him up as one of those!!!:D Just a fantasy signing honestly.
As someone said the other day it’s hardly surprising Levante don’t want to throw an unproven kid in there, they’re doing outstandingly well with the team they’re playing.
We definitely need to pull him out of there though, he’d be better off with our reserves getting adapted to England than not playing at all in Spain. Or maybe Feyenoord or Lorient could give him regular minutes.
I did’t knew Levante was in 4th place ahead of Seville and Villareal and such… damn!!!!! I can understand why he hasn’t played a lot this season then but he should leave soon cus its getting ridiculous with such talent on the bench. I think he should go to Holland or stay in the 2nd division of spain to ensure him playing time. Or to a team with a manager who is not afraid to give a young player a chance.
I still wish we went for eriksen when he was going for cheap….. now man utd wants him im really sad about this…. this is why i really like the kid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=IN&v=YxiHC7ugzvw
Not sure what’s happened to news of all the Young Guns but Joel Campbell scored a good goal against Spain last night. Costa Rica were 2-0 up at one stage but it finished 2-2 with I believe Silva and Villa scoring for a strong Spain team.
@ Bolly
I watched that match and Costa Rica had a very good first half…. they kinda let up a lot in the 2nd. Campbell’s goal was a stunner. It kinda reminded me of the same type of goals henry used to score from the left into the right bottom corner. He is by no means yet henry but its good to see that he has that kind of accuracy. Campbell’s work rate is something i really admire. I hope he continues to improve.
Campbells work rate is usually poor to be honest. He stands around a lot off the ball but as he plays more in the professional environment I am sure that will improve. I watched the first half and Costa Rica played well. The often put up some great entertaining matches when on their game. Their game verse Brazil in the 2002 world cup was one of my all time favorites. Campbell did well and the goal was simple because Spain stood off him but still and nice finish.
@rashonwenger
Campbell’s really surprised me with his work rate. He puts a lot of pressure on defenders, really sprints after them if he sees half a chance to win it back. He’s not afraid to put in a few tackles either. I’ve watched him for 90 minutes for Lorient about 4 or 5 times and he always works hard for the team. In one game I thought he was going to have to come off after pulling up holding his hamstring (Lorient were holding on to a 1 goal lead late in the game), but he came back on (with a bit of a limp still) and kept on chasing and pressing to see out the game. And you could see he wasn’t too comfortable, had a bit of a grimace on his face a few times. I didn’t have him pegged as being that gutsy a player.
If anyone still thinks they’d prefer Mertesacker to Cahill you’re absolutely kidding yourselves.
Fantastic win today. Should have been way more comfortable than it was though.
I’d prefer Mertesacker because he’s a) better and b) a third of the price.
On top of that, if you think you can judge anyone based on a single incident you’re an idiot, and if you think that goal today was Mertesacker’s fault, you’re blind or haven’t seen the replays.
It was one of those where it wasn’t much of a foul – certainly not deliberate – but the contact was just enough, in just the right place – arm around the throat from behind – to make Mertesacker air-kick instead of clear the ball, and to leave him no chance to stay on his feet.
That’s football – can’t blame the ref, wasn’t much in it; can’t blame the striker, he didn’t do too much wrong, just got lucky; can’t blame the defender, he was just unlucky. There was a small foul which just so happened to be perfectly placed and timed that it had a much larger impact than it deserved.
What on earth was he even trying to do? I don’t understand. Just horrific defending. In the right conditions Mertesacker can be a good defender but he’s really not suited to England at all, particularly to the way we defend. He’s far too slow and for a guy who’s 6″6 or whatever he’s embarrassingly weak physically. The amount of times he ended up on his arse today was a bit of a joke. And don’t worry, this is not based on one game or one incident. Before we signed him I was saying exactly the same things on here; too slow, too weak and prone to blunders. His last couple of seasons at Bremen were so poor.
We need a right back. Because we look a million times better with Kos-Verm at the back than Merte-Verm.
Koscielny made a number of errors similar to the one Per made today in his first few months at Arsenal, and now he’s adapted to the pace and power of the PL he’s an absolute beast. He’s become stronger, his numbers for aerial duels have shot up, mistakes have practically disappeared.
Per has more than enough ability to make the same step up – his reading of the game is excellent, great technical ability, and apart from his admittedly woeful indecisiveness for the goal he was very strong for the rest of the game.
That you admit that you were already down in the mouth about Mertesacker before we signed him just tells me that you’re probably always looking out for his mistakes and looking past his qualities in order to confirm your own preconceived ideas about the player, rather than watching him with an open mind.
I agree with Adam. Per had been a poor buy. He may adapt, however his last couple of season at Bremen does not inspire confidence.
Despite being a giant, I do not think that he will adapt to the physicality of the English game. It is not just his lack of pace it is his indecisiveness.
Cahill may not be as good footballer, but he looks to make up his mind much quicker.
In the EPL, some striker will never give up and will chase you relenlessly. In Germany it is much more tactical and coaches do not want striker lose energy in chasing lost cause.
From the rumour in France it looks like in the summer we will sell Chamackh and replace him with Giroud of Montpellier.
He is quite raw but with work he could become a world class player.
He has good ethic and a similar style of play than Van Persie. Moreover he is a real team player without a big ego.
@wrenny
Im glad we are watching the same player because he has a tremendous work rate… he is young and i feel that if he has developed that attitude now it would only get better….. if he stays level headed. That seems to be the problem with these youngsters these days.
@wrenny and @dave…. i couldnt have said it any better. Some of the criticism of Per is ridiculous. and we wonder why our players have confidence issues.
Wow…. ok all the Per Mertesacker Haters i would tell you this, he is better than cygan, senderos, squillaci and at least 85% of the center backs in the league. Is he better than cahill? there is no question that cahill is better because cahill is faster, better in the air and technically gifted for a center back. Is Cahill better than Kos and Verm. Forget that he is english and i would tell you it is a resounding no. Now this is my opinion and you can disagree with it because this is a blog and we are all entitled to our perspective. He is taller than verm and kos and that is the ONLY advantage he has over them. Verm and Kos are underrated and we need to start learning to appreciate our players. Finally no one said Per is a God amongst center backs. He was bought to perform the task that Squillaci could not manage to perform and one that Djourou (injury and inconsistency in reading the game because he has all the physical tools and technique) cannot do and that is provide COVER. period… if you ask me outsides of the mistake he made today and in the champions league when he got beat by ayew, he has been very reliable. I’ll take that. He NEEDS to learn to clear the ball immediately because he has a low center of gravity being 6’6″ and as a result when players harry him they can easily bowl him over or he bowls over them (especially if they have a low center of gravity aka shorter strikers). We won and have defended better lately than we ever had last season. You can see they are starting to learn to put bodies behind the ball. I love it. We are not championship material yet but we are pretty darn good. Verm is starting to learn a bad habit of giving away needless fouls at the edge of the box and no one is talking about that and neither should they. We rise as a team and fall as a team. Leave Per alone.
OH BY THE WAY…. why isnt anyone criticizing the shambolic display from ramsey today? hmm???? why do we alway love to attack our defenders?
Was Ramsey shambolic? I thought he was a lot better than Arteta who had a very poor game. Sloppy in possession and completely anonymous for large periods.
I always hate games after an international break.. Ramsey and Song looked tired yesterday, Song gave the ball away too many times, Ramsey’s head wasn’t in the game at all.. Santos frequently looks lazy and a liability positionally, Gervinho did a lot of good things, but needs to stay back after school and work on his finishing.. RVP should’ve had 4, Theo had a good game at least..
Tumbleweed
Mertesacker has only been in the epl for a handful of matches whereas cahill has about 200 matches under his belt. if any of u actually bother to watch cahill he.makes the type of mistakes that mertesacker.made.yesterday just as frequently if not more. bolton are one of only 3 teams to ha conceded more than us. why do u think mertesacker is closing in on 80 caps for germany while cahill who is about the same age has less than 10 for england!
all that said tho cahill is one of the 4 defenders i would sign this jan window. baines vertonghen and van der weil are the others. i would sell the following 8 defenders hoyte squillaci djourou botelho meade hajrovic monteiro and brislen-hall
apologies for the out of place full stops. small keyboard and fingers like a baseball glove!!
Cahill has been vastly overrated. If he’s as good as many seem to think, what’s he still doing at Bolton? Man Utd spent £18m on Phil Jones rather than buy Cahill. Ditto Chelsea, also overlooked Cahill to buy David Luiz for £20m+ instead. Man City, Liverpool, Spurs didn’t buy him either. It’s not just Arsene who believes there are better defenders out there.
So either all those top managers haven’t got a clue OR the media have hyped up an average English player into a world beater as they have done so many times before. Which scenario is more likely?
I haven’t made a special point of watching Bolton to see Cahill play, but whenever Arsenal have played Bolton I haven’t seen Cahill put in a decent performance. We’ve put 4 goals past Bolton quite a few times in recent years. He looks quick, strong and good on the ball but I don’t think he reads the game well enough to play for a top side. He’s not a brave or aggressive defender, he’s very indecisive and stands off strikers. He’s strong in the air but on the ground his ability to tackle and intercept balls doesn’t look great to me. For me Cahill is all hype, decent defender but nowhere near the same class as Vidic, Vermaelen, Kompany, etc. I can say with a lot of confidence that Cahill will never be a regular starter for a top 4 side.
To be fair Wrenny, no body was claiming Kompany, Vermaelen and Vidic as the worlds best defenders before they played with the top teams. You are right though in the fact that why did others choose different defenders over Cahill. Even Spurs who have no problem paying over the odds, did not complete the signing so that should tell us something.
That’s a fair point Shane, and perhaps with better players around him Cahill might perform above his current level. I wouldn’t be at all against us nabbing Cahill on a free in the summer, or in January for a reasonable fee. I don’t see him challenging Koscielny and Vermaelen but he ought be a tidy squad player to replace Squillaci and/or Djourou and compete with Mertesacker. He offers more mobility than Per or Djourou and can play the ball from the back quite well from what I’ve seen.
It is far to early to completely judge Mertesacker people. You need time to adapt to the league. Vidic, Henry, Bergkamp and many more have shown that. Now the issue to me is that he is very poor in the air which when you sign a 6′ 6” centerback, you would expect him to help in that area.
Also there is not really a point in talking about starters because our players get injured so much we need about 20 defenders.
@ Wrenny
The difference with Koscielny was that you could see his obvious strengths so there was faith that when he adapted, that he would be class. His main issue really was just getting stronger which we all can do.
The problem with Merstesacker is that his qualities aren’t really showing to out weigh the negative and the things I am seeing aren’t really fixable. He is not going to get faster and he is not going to jump higher. Still, for a 3rd choice center back, is good enough. Just hope Koscielny and Vermaelen get more games together.
I think the issue of Per’s pace has been overplayed. He isn’t as quick as Verm or Kos, but is he genuinely ‘slow’? Because obviously players don’t just come as ‘quick’ or ‘slow’. From the one or two footraces that I’ve seen Per involved in, his pace looks decent enough (and better than I imagined it would be), average or above average I would say. He’s not going to make up two yards on a quick striker the way TV or Kos might, but his positioning and reading of the game so far has looked really good, good enough that I feel he will rarely end up in a situation where he’s chasing down a striker bearing down on goal. Good anticipation goes a long, long way to mitigate a relative lack of pace. We’re also defending a little deeper than we were last season so the space in behind has been reduced, which also helps Per if the worst happens.
Where I think Per has done poorly is simply being indecisive and not taking action quickly enough. Things happen a bit quicker in the PL and it seems like he’s not used to that, but I believe that will come with a bit more experience. And I’ve seen enough good qualities from him to outweigh the negatives. His anticipation is superb, he’s very good on the ball (better than I thought it would be), his pace isn’t a liability (which I feared it might be), and he’s technically very good in the way he tackles and intercepts (he’s famous for picking up very few yellow cards).
Fair enough mate. I hope you are right. I will give him time before I leave my complete opinion on him. Like we both said, he needs time to adjust to the pace of the game before we can tell if his faults are actually faults or just not being adapted to the English game. Also as I said, the biggest disappointment is that he is poor in the air for a guy that is so tall.
Man seriously… Mersesacker has been great for us. He plays the ball very very well too. Probably one of the best I’ve seen for a defender and he is in the right place at the right time most of the time. Also intercept the balls really good. He jumps really short for a tall guy but because he already is that tall he makes up for it. The other still needs to jump really high to have any chance to beat him. Yes he is not super strong but he is stronger than people think he is. Most likely average for this league. He will be stronger though and much more comfortable playing in the league very very soon.
He made one error and immediately some people questioning his place. Look up his stats. He makes many interceptions and right passes all the time. Just like Vermaelen and Kos do.
Yes, he is good at a couple things. The issue is his defending in the most important area…..the box. Go back and look at other games mate. Check out the Chelsea game. Making interceptions 45 yards from the goal is great but it means nothing if you give up goals.
PS…Of course I hope he comes good and at least he is a good 3rd choice and put Squilacci farther from getting on the field. Thats positive.
shane
seriously… there isn’t any defender out there who will not make any mistakes for a very long time. sooner or later it will happen. this time it happaned to mersesacker and it ended up in goal. And the other thing is ANY team can leak goals against chelsea… are you serious?? He have saved us from dangerous situation too in the box. your point is invalid. In the end mersesacker is a great CB. If he is better than Cahill I know for sure he is. As someone else said.. Cahill has played over 200 games and still not a single top 4 team or a big big club wants him. Mersesacker is a full international who is proven himself internationally and compare him to a guy who is pretty much a nobody is ridiculous. Pus djuroue is Bolton and I am pretty sure he would have been equally as good as Cahill or even better.
Mersesacker is strong enough and tall enough to cause big problems for any striker. and he is good enough to take a place in any top 4 team.
My point is invalid? lol. Good argument. He as been at fault for several goals already this year. Not talking about just 1 or 2 and not talking about just getting beat by better players but actual poor defending.
Also what are you on about Cahill in responding to me? I never said anything about Cahill being better.
You can’t sit here and deny that he has made several mistakes that have let in goals this year. That is a fact. Now if you want to say that you think he has done good things to and will come good then fine. I have know issue with that and I hope he comes good, but don’t deny fact. Hell, I was one defending Koscielny all last year and saying that him with Vermaelen should be the starters this year and most people on here disagreed so I can understand where you are coming from mate. cheers
I got a question. What are we going to do this year when we cash in on RVP like we did Nasri and Fabregas? Are we going to pocket the money again? It is not like we really have another starting level striker on our team and strikers do not come cheap.
How can you give a thumbs down to a question? lol
if song, ramsey and the rest looked tired because of inter-bored break why not mertersacker. gary cahill’s people are trying to make a case here that we need another defender in january. no we don’t!
if per is that bad then lets just assume our first 2 choices are koscielny and vermaelen so he comes in as upgrade to squillaci, again we have miquel and bartley developping, song can also play in central defence. i don’t mind if we sign cahill but we surely don’t need him.
what we badly need is a goalscorer as park chu still anonymous, we haven’t seen him much. and a creative midfielder.
We definitely need another quality striker. It is just that they cost so much money and we are not going to spend it. If RVP were to leave, I don’t know what we would do.
Side note though, give Gervinho time and he will get goals. He was close to 3 or 4 in the last game.
I think if we finish 4th RVP will sign another contract with us. We’d have to reach the final of the Champions League or win it outright, if we don’t finish fourth, for him to stay. If we happen to win it, then he will stay. I don’t think we will cash in on him if we attain a Champions League place or a playoff place like we did last year. There aren’t any other players out there that I know of who could do the job that he does, as well as he does. There are a lot of Nasri’s and even Fabregas was more replaceable than RVP. What other strikers work as hard for the club AND have that innate finishing ability that RVP has. He’s a class unto himself when it comes to strikers and I don’t think anyone can do what he does. We’d have to find a 6 foot plus midfielder and convert him in to a strker that can get 20-30 goals. That doesn’t happen a lot and I think Wenger appreciates this. IF RVP leaves it will be because we haven’t finished high enough in the league to get a chance to qualify for the Champions League. IF this happens I think Wenger will leave. He said that he would only leave if he felt that he didn’t do a good enough job with the talent that he has available. Well, with the talent that he has, we SHOULD finish 4th or higher!!! And I think he knows this!!!
I think we need a few more players in Jan. Get the Valencia striker or the french striker who did a debut for france. Both are quality. Get Goetze in NOW! Or a new creative midfielder. 2 new wingers because Arshavin is leaving and Rosicky is too. Chamberlain needs to play but I am not sure he will make it immediately this season. So one experience with 4 years left at best and relatively experience. Buy a new LB. Santos is the only one right now and Gibbs is constantly injured. He will be able to cover for RB spot too if needed.
We either buy now or give opportunities to young “local lads” like Aneke and Ozyacup. We don’t have a lot of time to make something this season and everything has to be spot on from now on. We need to win 18 more matches and don’t lose a single one to secure a top 4 spot.
Congrats shitty.
We will sell if he doesn’t sign a new contract. We are not that stupid mate. You are talking 25 to 30 million pounds for 1 year. Never going to pass on that. Unfortunately I have absolutely no faith that we would replace him. Even if we finish top 4, Man City will be there to offer 200k a week. You think we are going to go anywhere near that?
On no body being near RVPs level. Yes, now he is clearly the best striker in the world. The last 7 or 8 years, this honor has rotated between players. My dream would have been to see Falcao and RVP up top together which could of happened. That would have been amazing.
I do still hold the faintest of hopes that Vela pulls his head out of his ass and fulfills his potential tbh.
You always think you are right. Van Persie has even said in the past that the project at City doesn’t interest him. IF he moves it won’t be for money I can guarantee you that!!! It will be because we haven’t finished high enough in the league and we haven’t bought any players in the next 2 transfer windows. Have some faith in him as a person. What is wrong with you??? I certainly wouldn’t want a faction of fans to question my integrity. He has shown nothing but class and respect for our club. Why should that change now??? It will be Arsenal’s fault if we don’t finish high enough. Yes, you can blame it on Wenger, but I wouldn’t. At least I wouldn’t blame it all on him. Most of it would lie with the actual players who are playing. We will not sell RVP this year I can guarantee you that. Wenger played ball with the board regarding Nasri and his situation. They said to let him go and we did. I think it could be a bit different this time. RVP won’t be around for that much longer. Who knows, it might take him a full year to adjust to a new league or club. By then he would be 30. So we might get the best out of him and then let him leave for free. I know that there is an outside chance of that, but it could happen and I wouldn’t cry if it did. We have more than enough money to buy another great striker if one comes along with the right qualities and demands. It wouldn’t be the end of the world if we lost RVP for free and I hope the board sees this.
Why would you say something if you didn’t think you were right? Did you give the same speech about Nasri before he left? Lets face it, RVP choosing to say that he is not going to discuss a new deal now is a pretty good hint. I hope that he stays and if he signed a new contract tomorrow then I would be over the moon.
How is it questioning his integrity by saying he might want double his current wages? Most people would love to get payed more in their jobs. Would you turn down a raise at your job?
You really think we would not sell RVP if he does not sign a new contract? Are you out of your mind lol. That would make no sense and go against everything Arsenal has ever done. It would be insane to lose 25 to 30 million pounds for 1 year of football.
Also, yes I said some of the other things before. It is not simply down to money. I would not blame RVP one bit if he left because we sold 2 of our world class players and replaced them with Bargain buy decent players so how could you blame him?
On buying a new striker. How often have we heard that speech about “if there is a player that can help us then we will spend the money”? News flash, there are a lot of players that would help us. As I said, Falcao would have been amazing. We brought in 60 million from just 2 of our players and did not sign a big name player. What gives you hope that we will ever spend some money on a quality talent that is already well known?
All this speculation about who we should buy in January is a bit pointless if Wenger has said he won’t be doing any shopping then. Mert has been ok in the main but has made a couple of errors. Kos made a few at the beginning but look at him now, performing amazing, week in week out. Mert had a couple of good runs Saturday and did not look particularly slow to me. He just made the wrong decision for their goal. Wenger has already said his interest in Cahill is dead and in any case he would not join us to sit on the bench now that he is a (fairly) regular in the England team and must replace Terry soon. All this talk about who to play up front with RVP is pointless too as we don’t play 442. Cham and Park are there to come in when RVP gets rested or injured. We will see how good Goetze is tomorrow night but I think we already have enough in midfield. Lets celebrate the good win we had Saturday and belive in the players we have.
We are aloud to speak about what we wish would happen. Also, Chamahk is hardly a good 2nd choice striker and we don’t know enough about Park. The real issue is what if RVP does leave which is a very real possibility. We have no player that can step in and we have shown that we will not pay money for a proper replacement.
@shane
But who could possibly replace Van Persie on current form? If the worst happens and RVP goes it’s more about adapting than replacing. The same way we have adapted to the loss of Cesc and Nasri who aren’t easily replaceable either. Our midfield has shifted and the ‘Cesc role’ no longer exists, because few players in world football could fulfil it to a comparable standard (Snjeider? Ozil? Kaka? None are realistic). Likewise with Nasri, we’ve tweaked our approach and gone more direct with an old-fashioned winger in Gervinho rather than try to find someone with Nasri’s rare technical abilities to play on the flank which would be very costly to bring in.
If RVP leaves there’s nobody who can do what he’s doing for us right now, apart from a Messi or Ronaldo. It’ll be another case of adapting our approach. Maybe Theo will move to the centre like he’s been wanting, he’s showing improvements in his control and awareness so perhaps he will be ready for the move inside next season.
@Wrenny
Ramsey has moved in to the Fabregas role and by adapting you mean praying RVP can score a couple goals a game for the rest of the year and mind you we still aren’t in the top 4 which we were competing for the title last year.
Also not saying we have to have the exact same striker as RVP to replace him. I am saying you must have a quality striker to succeed. You can’t take away the striker role all together. It is just scary to think what will happen if RVP did leave all because we chose not to bring in top class players to replace the others mind you Gervinho was supposed to be added as that final 5 percent or what ever Wenger was calling it last year. I just don’t see how fans can be so blind right now.
It is like we lowered the expectations so low now that even though we are far lower now than we were competing for last year, this is determined as success.
And yes mate, it is not about a direct replacement. It is about replacing quality with quality and not pocketing all that money even though you promised your fans that we already had the funds to bring in quality players. Atletico Madrid Aguero and used that to buy Falcao. There is no excuse to bring in 60 MILLION pounds from 2 of our star players and still not bring in a top class player.
Yes, you are right on the last part somewhat but Theo Walcott is way better fitted for 2 strikers up top. As always, don’t get me wrong. I would love to be wrong about all this because I just want us to succeed but this summers transfer business felt like a stab in the back to the fans.
Yes, if we have the money of course we should use it (wisely) to strengthen the team. But I wasn’t getting into a financial discussion, I was referring exclusively to the practicalities of replacing a world class player such as Fabregas or Van Persie with a like-for-like player at the same or similar level, which is near impossible, regardless of funds. That’s why I think about it in terms of adapting rather than replacing. We’ll continue to bring in quality, as we’ve always done, but the players brought in might not necessarily be comparable to the ones going out. Like how Gervinho is very different to Nasri and Arteta too is much more different to Cesc than many seem to realise (and criticise Arteta as a result of their lack of understanding) and is playing a very different role to Cesc’s. If Arteta has truly ‘replaced’ anyone in the squad, it’s actually been Denilson.
Regarding Ramsey, although he has the ability to step into a false 10 role such as Cesc’s in future, that’s not how he’s been used this season. Last season we played almost exclusively in a 4-2-3-1 shape and Cesc had his very clearly defined role in that shape, whereas this season the midfield structure has changed and we’re usually a 4-3-3 how we were in 09/10. Previously we had Song and Wilshere playing level to one another in a double pivot, each covering one side. Now Song plays centrally in front of the back four with Arteta and Ramsey to either side. However, Ramsey is usually the most advanced midfielder while Arteta likes to drop deep and dictate the play (and our midfield three continues to be very fluid) so the change isn’t always obvious.
We’ve also, on occasion, switched mid-game to a 4-2-3-1 this season that’s seen Ramsey pushed up closer to RVP and play more as a no.10, such as in the 2nd half v Chelsea. But on the whole, our midfield has switched from last season’s ‘2-1’ shape to a ‘1-2’, and Ramsey’s role has been different to Cesc’s. That might change as the season goes on and Ramsey continues to grow, and personally I would like to see him spend more time playing as a no.10 closer to RVP and getting into the box more often.
You are seeing the game far differently then me mate. Ramsey is playing in the free role in the 4-2-3-1 and Arteta is in that are of Wilshere. We had a few games early in the year that it was more 4-3-3 but not sense then.
The average position information taken from matches confirms this (you can find these on the ESPN soccernet website gamecasts for every one of our games this season). Song’s average position is central, while Arteta and Ramsey’s average positions are near level (Ramsey usually slightly more advanced), and higher up and either side of Song.
This midfield change from last season has been discussed at length on many football tactics blogs since pre-season when it first began. Many websites still put the players down as playing 4-2-3-1 but this is a common misconception. The average position maps show the Arsenal midifelders’ true positions.
Stop moaning about the summer transfer window already…god. Who cares??? It’s not like you or I are about to go to any Arsenal matches or pay money to watch them now are we??? It happened, let it go, and see what happens in the next few months or so. We don’t stand a chance if clubs are going to just gift wins to Spurs like Aston Shithole just did. I was upset too about who we got and who we didn’t get but things are looking up right now. It doesn’t matter that we are on a knife edge with Van Persie’s fitness. The main thing is that our situation has improved. With our schedule in the next month or two I can see us climbing the table even further. We only competed for the title for a month or so last year. It wasn’t like the 2007-2008 season where we lead by like 9 points at one point in the season. We played 4-4-2 that year and I still maintain that that was the best football I have seen from Arsenal football club. We CAN adapt. And we will. If RVP leaves, we’ll find someone else who can do a good enough job. Especially if he leaves with a high transfer fee like you are GUARANTEEING will happen!!! Stop complaining and just watch for a bit…don’t speculate and worry about the future. I’ve quit doing that and I’m a MUCH happier fan. Obviously that ISN’T the approach that Wenger or the board should take, but I highly recommend it to the Arsenal fanatic!!! We are playing solid if not spectacular football, and we are winning. It’s not being blind either. Look, you can either enjoy being a fan, or you can constantly complain and bitch…which one are you leaning towards???
Who cares? Are you kidding me? I would hope every real supporter would care and I am not moaning about the summer transfer window. I am just using it as a point of reference in the discussion about RVP which there is nothing wrong with that.
We can discuss positives too. Great news that Vermaelen signed a new deal. Good to see Ramsey start to get going. Song, Koscielny and Szczesny are doing great as always. Sorry if I got a little negative after the summer window. I was all positive about this year until then. Sorry I just see it for what it is. cheers
Has someone hijacked Shane’s account, or is he just trolling because this place has been so dead? :)
Anyway, the answers to ‘what happened to all the money’ and ‘will van Persie stay’ are linked – the money is currently allocated to his pay rise.
Talking of centre-backs, what’s up with Djourou? Has he been injured more than I’ve realised so far this season? I’d have expected to see him feature more.
He’s been a disaster pretty much every time he’s played this year. He’s fit but seems to have completely lost the plot. Needs a loan imo.
How am I trolling? I am just involved in the discussions with my opinion. Everyone does not have to agree with my opinion every time.
Well I don’t even know exactly what trolling is hahahahaha:D What is the exact definition???:D Does anyone know any good feeds to watch the match tomorrow against Borussia Dortmund??? Any suggestions would be much appreciated!!!:D
I was just kidding, Shane – didn’t seem like your usual views, so much as something you half believe, and half felt would start a debate. Well, we need something to talk about :)
“Everyone does not have to agree with my opinion every time.”
Plainly not. They have to agree with mine…
Milo>
“Does anyone know any good feeds to watch the match tomorrow against Borussia Dortmund???”
wiziwig.tv seems to be the new myp2p. Cheers for that by the way – I hadn’t realised it’s not on ITV.
Well, that was pretty close, but apart from the stupid and clearly rectifiable mistake at the end, we put on a solid if nto spectacular display!!! Next time either Song or the other player (I forget whom) should kick the ball out of the ground!!! We’d been doing so well up until that point defensively, and we ruined the clean sheet for Szczesny!!! I hope those two players have learned from that mistake and don’t repeat it again!!! I know we weren’t at our best in the attacking department or the build up play, but we found a way to win, which is satisfying in the end. We are the FIRST English club through to the knockout rounds!!! Come on Arsenal!!!:D
Brilliant work by Arsenal today. A bit fortunate with Gotze leaving the game but still. Man of the match by a mile was Alex Song. Also even though Dortmund came out strong early on, we never really looked under real pressure. Mertesacker was soild today. The other one that impressed me was Santos. I find it funny that our left back is a much better dribbler than our right winger lol. Other than the mostly positives, there was Gervinho who was simply poor. Once he gets the confidence going though, I believe he will be fine. Well done Arsenal.
Difficult to assess this game without bedner and Gotze both of which influenced the game early, out injured. overall im happy we won… i kinda woulda loved to see us test our mettle against a full stregth Dortmund.
To be fair we are without Wilshere and Sagna so it is even to me.
” Other than the mostly positives, there was Gervinho who was simply poor.”
Well, he wasn’t at his best, but I’m not sure he was that poor. I’m just wondering if there’s something linking what we saw with Gervinho in this game to Arshavin’s loss of confidence and form: they’re both good players with the ball at their feet facing the defence, but both look considerably less effective when they have to use their bodies to shield the ball from defenders. Presumably whether they have to do that’s due to the supply from midfield as much as anything else.
Come to think of it, Walcott has similar problems in some matches. It seems to help when the full-back gets closer to the winger, because then the winger can always take the ball down the line and cut it back for the full-back to cross.
Gervinho’s end product is just woefully erratic. But he’s a good player, get’s in to loads of great positions.
Gervinho needs a goal or two to get his confidence back in front of goal but he’s a fantastic player; he beats players for fun, he makes perfectly timed runs into the spaces RVP creates when he drops deep, and he works hard for the team. His final ball isn’t quite there yet, but most forwards wouldn’t even get into the positions to put away the chances that Gervinho’s missed. Walcott could learn a few things from watching Gervinho’s movement.
No doubt, Gervinho is a good player, just had a bad game. It happens. Walcott is a different story. All Walcott needs to do is play on the back shoulder of the defender and have RVP, Song and Ramsey slip him through balls because that is when he is dangerous. Giving him the ball out at wing to dribble is almost as comical as watching Chamahk in shooting positions. He just dribbles right into the defender almost every time and occasional gets his bridge move off. He is so good when in natural striker positions but when he needs to think, that is when it all goes bad and he looks awkward.
I agree on Gervinho beating defenders with ease. He is even better at that then I thought he was before this season.
And Gervinho is only going to get better as the season goes on, he’s already got more assists this season than Nasri managed for us the whole of last season. With the brilliant runs he makes he could score 20+ if he gets his shooting boots on. You can see how he was the only player in Ligue 1 last season to get into double figures on both goals and assists. He doesn’t look very elegant but his numbers don’t lie, the guy creates problems for defenders and makes things happen.
Remember how a number of Arsenal fans wanted us to get Stewart Downing, so obviously better than this Gervinho nobody? 0 goals and 0 assists for Liverpool this season, for only £20m! Wenger knows.
I remember being happy when Downing chose Liverpool lol. Yah, you are right though. It happens all the time. People want players they know of and watch every week. My favorite signings are the players I have to wikipedia right after we sign them lol.
Yah, I said Gervinho was a missing piece to our team when we signed him. The problem was obviously 2 of the other pieces left. I said all last year that we needed a direct winger/ wide forward that can beat players on the dribble and get 12 to 15 goals and assists and Gervinho is that type of player. As I said, he is even better at beating players off the dribble than I thought he would be.
Yep, since Arshavin’s lost a little of pace and his confidence has been low we haven’t had someone you can really bet on going past players consistently (Nasri was always too attracted to the ball and more interested in playing one-twos than taking full-backs on). When we’re up against teams playing deep and struggling to pull players out of position with our passing we need someone who can just create a yard with a bit of a jink to have a shot or stick it in the six yard box. It’s not refined but it gets the job done and sometimes that’s what we need. Gervinho gives us that.
I was very happy when I read we were getting Gervinho, he wasn’t a big name but he ticked a lot of boxes for me. He brought more pace to our attack, which we had very little of whenever Theo had a knock (None of RVP, Chamakh, Bendtner, Nasri, Arsha or Rosicky have real pace or a strong burst of acceleration). That lack of killer pace allowed teams to press us higher without that fear of Walcott getting in behind them, and meant we often struggled to break quickly. Not a problem we have now! His versatility is a big bonus, he’s equally comfortable on either flank and can play through the middle if needed. Also, looking at his appearance records Gervinho is pretty injury resistant, another big plus for a squad with a few injury-prone players in attack (RVP, Bendtner, Theo). Gervinho’s been a really cunning buy.
Has J left the building or wtf?
He right columns for a newspaper now, I know that. They are about young players and he links them through twitter.
We deserved only a draw. Our play for the first 70 minutes were sluggish. We thought oh we got this in the bag, NOT! if we played like we played in the last 20 minutes for the whole half we would have won that game period. Fulham could not keep up with us and they knew it. We just played really stupid stupid football for more than 60 minutes. One player for me that should not see the field at all is Arshavin. Yes we were all fans but the truth remains that he has no ambition. Cant pass, cant dribble, can harry opposing players and is often caught sluggishly walking instead of trying to stretch the field. When RVP came back to get the ball, arshavin couldnt make any runs into the box. That right back had nothing to do till Gerv came in. Personally i say this. As a fan of arshavin, he should play in the middle of the park not at the wings but just looking at his body language, he should be traded. He does not seem to want to be there at all. We keep babysitting the truth about Ramsey and its getting clearer by the second that he has loads of engine but abysmal decision making in the final third and in the middle of the park. This is now three games in a row that i have noticed this and i am beginning to watch him a bit more closely. Let side to side passes not full you or his energy. He gives the ball away too cheaply and i believe that is why wenger put him on the bench after the goal because he is getting careless. I cant wait till wilshere comes back. Maybe that would get ramsey’s attention when they get more players to compete for that position. I mean dont get me wrong he had moments but his passing was shambolic. Highlight was lying on the floor begging for a call when if he got up he would have had the ball at his feet and potentially been in a good position. We left two points on the table table make no mistake about it. If arsenal is to make it far in any competition, they need to play 100 percent till the final whistle.
Utter rubbish. The team looked very tired today and the midfield three in particular were running on empty after playing so much football, yet Ramsey worked harder and played better than Arteta or Song. He was taken off because he was completely exhausted. Abysmal decision making? Do me a favour!
Diaby is coming back at just the right time for us to rotate more in December, as are the games v City in the CC and the Olympiakos dead rubber to give the first-team some rest. We’ve had Wilshere and Diaby out all season and it’s put a lot of physical strain on Song, Arteta and Ramsey. If Rosicky had been fit today Ramsey would have probably got a well earned rest as Koscielny and Gervinho did.
@wrenny
Ok maybe he was tired today, Maybe. which i doubt because he was running all over the place today. but better than song? are you kidding me…. bro at this point i cant even argue with you if you think that sentence made any kind of sense. Song was not his best today, but was better than ramsey without a doubt. Without an iota of a doubt…. anywayz
its clear that song was way better than ramsey… let me explain something to you wrenny. When they subbed ramsey, who did they move up to play his position….. arteta. Go back and watch the game. It was simply because ramsey’s passing in the final third was letting us down and he lacked the creativity needed. They put song and diaby in the deep role. Like i said it was not pretty, ramsey ran well but that was all he had. no creativity and very few connected passes period.
In your eagerness to defend your knee-jerk reaction regarding Ramsey I’m afraid you’ve overlooked a small detail – how could Diaby have played alongside Song “in the deep role” when Song was moved to centre-back when Diaby came on?
Not that it’s of any importance as whoever moved into Ramsey’s position is irrelevant (Diaby is better driving from deep so it’s logical that Arteta would go more advanced), but it just goes to show your poor observational skills.
ok… i got a name wrong but is that what you hang your hat on? I cede that i made a mistake and Song was in the back four and Diaby was playing his role. Is that how you divert the argument from the fact? the fact remains the fact. Ramsey was poor on the night i challenge anyone to look at every ratings in any column and find the ratings from ramsey and it would be amongst the lowest…. Not like i give a shit what they say but the fact is, Ramsey had a bright first 10 minutes and it was over. His industry got him into a lot of good spaces but he was wasteful, period. All that crap about song playing defense and switched to 442 (which im sure you didnt know that but who is counting) does not change the fact that ramsey was poor, they substituted him for diaby and move Arteta up to provide the front line. The entire team was tired so i doubt this was only special to ramsey. He was below par for his standards in this game, in dortmund and norwich. Film doesnt lie.
“ok… i got a name wrong”
Exactly whose name did you get wrong? Your mistake had nothing to do with a player’s name but in failing to notice an obvious and important tactical switch of personnel, which you were building your argument around.
In addition to this poor level of observation, you also seem to be confused on what constitutes “fact”. You talk a lot about “facts” but I must inform you, what you are giving us are something called “opinions”, same as I am. You aren’t presenting me any “facts” whatsoever and repeating “fact” over and over doesn’t make your argument any stronger.
Returning to the game, you seem to think there’s some kind of special relevance to Arteta being pushed further forward after Ramsey coming off, as if this is meant to say something negative about Aaron’s performance. Why? Ramsey was taken off because he had worked the hardest and was shattered, Diaby was brought on to add power and drive, and the midfield tweaked to get the best out of the players on the pitch. To see it any other way is to give a twisted interpretation of the game to suit your argument.
rashonwenger…Ramsey was just fine in the first half!!! He clearly got tired around the hour mark and I don’t know how you didn’t notice that. Ramsey is just as creative as Wilshere trust me. Last season Wilshere’s best attributes were his ability to keep posession for us. He was almost exactly like Modric. Not too many goals or assists. Once Ramsey learns to finish like Fabregas did you will see that Ramsey is JUST as forward thinking a player as Wilshere is, if not more so. I love Wilshere and we have missed him a ton, but to say that ramsey is worthless is totally wrong. In the past 3 matches, if it weren’t for profligate finishing, especially by Gervinho, if memory serves me correctly, he would have had at least 3 assists. Go screw off and complain about Ramsey, whom you obviously have some personal vendetta against somewhere else!!!
they played 3-5-2 in some occasions and thank God for Tivo….. i went back and watched it and YES song was playing deep midfield in some occasion especially in the last 10 minutes. so i think you need to go back and watch the videos again Sir I thought i had a comeback. you are indeed WRONG.
@ Milo.
Im watching the whole game again right now and im still reiterating everything i said. He played well when it comes to his engine. You can never take that away from ramsey. He had engine. Go through all my comments and I am saying the same thing. He gave away the ball too much when he got into good positions when he had the ball and even when making simple passes. I have nothing against the kid at all. His creativity would come back i just feel for the last three games his passing has been woeful dats all. dats all im criticizing. He is not God. When i see something he is starting to develop a pattern of, im calling it like i see it.
I don’t know how you can say the last 3 matches his passing has been bad, when I can remember at least 2 oe 3 incidents where he SHOULD have had an assist. He creates his fair share of chances and has solid technique when he isn’t tired. When he gets tired, like most players his technical attributes decline and he suffers a dip in his passing accuracy. He’ll be fine, I don’t know what you are so worried or upset about. He played really, really well against Norwich, and the match before that too!!! He didn’t play that well against Dortmund, but he can’t score a seven out of ten and upwards every match. Be quiet now and see how he plays in his next match, whenever that may be. He’ll deffinately get a rest before he plays again and that should help him. No, he hasn’t been quite as good as he was before the injury, but he’s progressed this season and is still on the way back up. He might never be as good as he could have been without the injury, or he might be just fine, but we won’t know this early you……
@Milo.
No problem mate… i’ll settle down now. I hope its down to fatigue and not playing to his full potential.
Well it’s too early to make a judgement and say that Ramsey is crap or he is brilliant or somewhere in between. I personally feel he has played well for the majority of his matches, and, not that this REALLY matters, but he has been the driving force behind Wale’s international resurgence. Consistency will come in time, and for the most part he has been consistent. Just in the last couple matches, plus that horror show at Spurs, even though he scored, has he been playing under his normal level. He’ll come back, of that I have no doubt!!!
is there anybody in there ???
Started to read some of these comments and just stopped. We did not play that bad. We had a ridiculous own goal and then about 4 or 5 chances that should have been goals but 1 of them was a great save by the keeper and 1 was clear off the line by a defender. We could have easily scored 4 goals and people would say we played great. Plus they
I will say that even though Arshavin is my favorite player of all time (alongside of Juninho), he is simply past it. This is a hard league to play in when you start to lose your pace and sharpness. A move to Italy would suit him. AOC should be getting in there over Arshavin.
Great to see Diaby back. I know a lot of fans don’t like him but I think he is quality.
edit…. Plus they did not cause much of a threat at all out side of Szczesny’s nice save and Vermaelen’s awkward clearance.
Diaby has so much talent, if it wasn’t for the ridiculous number of injuries he’s suffered since that Sunderland clogger broke his leg he would be world class. Laurent Blanc’s said “Diaby is an incredible player. I hope he will be fit soon, because I want to bring him to Euro next summer.”
The hate towards him went through the roof after he was sent off in the Newcastle game, but try and look at it from his point of view. You’re constantly on the treatment table, spending weeks and months training on your own with physios not being able to kick a ball. This happens to you over and over again as first Paul Robinson, then Michael Essien, smash your ankle. All that toil and frustration to get back playing, and as soon as you’re fit and back on the pitch you get that filthy scumbag Barton going in hard and almost breaking your leg to stick you back with the doctors, more surgery, more months of healing. It’s a wonder Diaby didn’t rip the thug c**t’s eyes right out of his head. How can people not have sympathy for the guy? Also, he played out of this world in that game. He completely bossed the midfield and played a huge part in us going in 4-0 at HT, precisely why Barton targeted him for his assaults.
That red card was BS. Barton should have been sent off.
Looking forward to tomorrow’s carling cup tie.Wonder what the starting eleven will be?I am guessing it will be a youth+experience squad like the last time out.More interesting to see will be the substitute bench.Will RVP be in there?Surely he won’t start….right?
The training pictures should give a big clue: http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/arsenal-train-ahead-of-man-city-pictures
Looks like it will be a similar squad to the one that played against Bolton in the last round, plus Koscielny and Gervinho might be there after they got a rest at the weekend.
who is this Gabriel Torje kid? is he any good? I heard they call him the Romanian Messi we are interested in him.
He is a young gem that Udinese have signed who’s been a bit of a revelation so far in Serie A. Small, energetic, skillful player who can play on either wing or behind the striker. Been very impressed with him this season but it’s highly unlikely he’d move now after just signing for Udinese. I think i’d prefer Marco Reus anyway.
Le Coq, Frimpong the Beast, The Ox.. Stand up and take a bow..
Suspend Coquelin for that horrible piece of effort on their goal. He was one of the players back and he does not even track Aguero at all then just slowly jogs behind the play while Frimpong is busting his ass to get back. He owes the players and apology because they played well and to let that happen is a disgrace. I can understand mistakes or what ever but to put in that effort on that play was embarrassing. Now back to the rest of the game.
We played so well. AOC and Gervinho are going to be the most dangerous winger combo in the league. I would not want to be a full back verse them. Frimpong was a beast. Chamahk seems decent if he has another striker to get the goals because he links up well. Koscielny was man of the match for me. Made Aguero look average. The other defenders played well too. We should have won but they have a good keeper. Saw him play for Romania game last year.
Last thing, I would love to see us go back to that 4-4-2. Good game overall, just a shame how it ended.