Arsenal have opened talks with Southampton over Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, Young Guns has learnt, but the two sides are still far apart in their valuation of the 17-year-old.
The deal appeared to be close in January, but Southampton chairman Nicola Cortese pulled the plug on the transfer after Arsène Wenger went public about it. However, Arsenal have since returned to the negotiating table, and have been given permission to talk to Oxlade-Chamberlain, who has already visited London Colney.
The England Under 21 international has all but agreed on a contract, but Southampton are yet to receive an offer they are happy with. Arsenal are thought to be prepared to offer a little more than the £10 million they put forward in January, but its not clear the payment structure of that offer.
It remains to be seen how quickly the two clubs can settle on a deal, with Arsenal now concentrating on tying up the formalities for Gervinho, as well as closing in on other targets.
We dont need him.
good, if you dont want him other do.
So pay up or shut up, and no HP terms.
If you can’t pay up front others will.
Your not dealing with Lowe now, this is a different Southampton to the one that sold you Walcott, a rich one!
Here, Pat, pipe down and shut up! This guy you replied to has no control over Arsenal’s negotiations, so telling him to pay up or shut up is absolutely retarded. Jog on!
Arsenal really should put up or shut up on this one,its getting as boring as the cesc saga now.
with limited resources arsene has to make the most out of it.
P.S James any idea if we will move for Varane
Wow Dan. “Put up or shut up”. Sorry that Arsenal Football Club is affecting your life so adversely.
I’m pretty sure the club has to look out fo its best interests, regardless of the speed at which that happens.
Its people like you that are boring mate.
Arsenal should pay whatever Southampton initially ask for regardless of whether or not it’s a valuation they see as fair, simply because you’re annoyed by how long it’s taking for him to sign? What are you on about, Dan? Honestly.
Southampton want too much considering he’s been playing in League 1. Moeney isn’t a joke in footy nowadays is it. A 17 year old in League one and £10mill aint enough? Get outta here! Still like to see him in an Arsenal shirt next season though
I dont know how much League One you have senn in the last year or two but you need to know that the current league One is far removed from the old third division simply because british players have been squezed out of the Premiership by foreign imports and have to play somewhere.
As for Chamberlain you might like to read the last interview Cortese gave with regard to his non existant transfer.Its filed on the Saints site and basically tells Wenger he can go and do one.Quite why the Press keep banging on about a non existant story beats me Saints have no interest in elling the player have ambitions of their own and the player has at least two years left on his contract.To be honest what annoys is the apparent arrogance of Arsenal who justg because they were able to steal Walcott off Saints on terms which were a joke are now assuming that they only have to knock on the door and demand the handover of our best prospects.
It seems no1 agrees with you
By that I mean barely anyone
surely no more than 10 million for the kid thats abit over the top … if they cant agree with offer arsenal have put up wenger should go get tarabt or add another 10 and get eden hazard
Hopefully this can be sorted out in the coming days and see some confirmation on the Arsenal Website about it, at least then we can try sorting out the defensive problems which even wenger himself knows about after bidding for Phil Jones. Hate waiting till the last minute for deals to be done
The last minute? The transfer window isn’t even open yet…
Any chance of an agreement to loan him back to Southampton for next season? That would seem to be the best situation for all 3 parties.
What is AOC’s natural position? Would he just be seen as a backup right winger? I like the purchase of young talent, but I think maybe the money could be better spent on a player with 5 or more years of experience, unless Arsene is really breaking the piggy bank this summer to purchase a variety of experienced and inexperienced talent? I would definitely approve of that!
first its not 10m cash its based on performance clauses. secondly does anyone else see bellerin as a similar player?
To even consider bidding £10 or more million for a 17 year old with only league 1 experiences really highlights the unrealistic and stupid evaluations of English ‘talent’.
Chamberlain is an exciting prospect, and I would love to see him at Arsenal but even to invest £5m in a teenager would be a risk, let alone £10-15m.
If he’s that good, why he’s not with the Eng U21’s?
Because he’s 17?
errr walcott was 17 and played for the under 21s i agree with your comment, if he is that good he should be playing for the under 21s
heck walcott played for england when he was 17 so that arguement doesnt hold water
Lets hope we can get a deal done for this young lad he’s a promising young talent nice to see gervinho on his way to us aswell looks like wenger means buisness this summer nice……. CMON YOU GUNNERS…..
WRENNY – i know its not open yet! but usually transfers like this are drawn out and not concluded till the end of the window, if even concluded, smart arse
Boring
they can’t ask for more than they took for walcott, that is a bit greedy. £10m total sounds really quite sufficient. take it and go get some new players. stop wasting your own time.
Why should Saints just hurry up and sell? How do you know what he’s worth? He’s our player, we don’t need to sell him. If you want him, meet the price and terms we set out (if we are even talking about selling), otherwise, do one and go bother another club.
I heard we are interested in Douglas Costa as well. It’s good to see us linked with some true wingers!!!
Douglas Costa is the real deal and I would love if he joined. He has the same talent as the Neymar’s and Alex Sanchez’s who are going to cost a lot more. Interesting summer so far. I will be able to start getting excited as soon as I hear that Nasri has signed a new deal then every thing else looks to be all positive.
IT really is beyond a joke…Gervinho £10.6 and A O-C is worth more!!! Spend the money on a DM, seeing that deals for Samba and Cahill are looking positive.
It would make absolutely no sense if we signed both Samba and Cahill. We are going with 5 first choice centerbacks? Koscielny is better then Cahill I can’t wait for his 2nd full season here. Koscielny and Vermaelen will be an awesome tandem.
What about Vermaelen playing on the left? I guess he’s playing/played there for Belgium. Hes got pace to play there while Clichy unfortunately isn’t any near cashley. Then we have Koscielny Djourou Cahill and Samba.
Why would you take the 2nd best centerback in the entire league (behind Vidic) and put him at left back? If we were going to spend 17 million on Cahill, we easily could just buy Baines or another left back and leave Vermaelen where he is.
Wenger will never pay 17m for cahill also I doubt that baines is going to be that chip. I agree that if we sell Clichy we should buy baines then again how much would he cost us? I thought about Vermaelen playing left back because he played there for his country. It will give Bartley more chances to play who I consider our future center half. I proposed it in case we sell clichy and dont/cant buy any new left back. If he is 2nd best center half why he cant be best left back?
It is funny that a proven Gervinho and a 17 year old English kid that hasn’t played higher then league 1 (aka a 3rd division) are going to cost about the same.
english/british players cost more because you are also paying for the wags and the publicity………….sarcasm!!!
no thumb down please
btw, douglas costa will need work permit and he’s not yet full international. i dont think its a good idea unless he’s selected for the cupa america maybe that will earn him few cups.
I am pretty sure he would be aloud to get a work permit. Wenger is not going to buy an established player to loan him out for a few years.
He’s worth more than ten million so shut up. We are the fifth richest team in England due to our owners. If you don’t want to pay 12-15 million for him then you can’t have him. And we are not having any installments, if you can’t afford what we are asking then you don’t buy him. Stop buying your talent and bring some up yourself.
LOL! It is bound to bother saints’ fans that many on here just assume a player would leave them to come to us as the natural order of things. Fine. But “bring some up yourself”? You know you are on an Arsenal blog, right? We do ok in this area ourselves. If you lot had taught Walcott how to make the right decisions at an earlier age he’d be well ahead of where he is at the moment! Could you develop us a monster center half next?
LOL, love Southampton fans that talk like this. You have brought through 3 talents, relax mate. Cashley Cole, Lansbury, Wilshere, JET, Steve Sidwell, Benik Afobe, Chuks Aneke, David Bentley and many more would all be stars for your club. The difference is our standards are higher at Arsenal so we let the elite ones from our academy rise in to our first team and then go out and get some of the best talent available.
So all this guys I listed would not be starting for Southampton? Our standard of player we need is not higher then Southamptons? Last time I checked we were a top 4 team and the were a newly promoted NPower Championship team? Yah , that makes a ton of sense…lol
As a Saints fan I would like to just add that after watching both all the way through their development with us – Chamberlain is a better winger than Walcott. Mainly because his end product is better; as in his crossing is far superior and even his shooting ability is better than Walcotts was. At seventeen all Theo had was pace, no composure. Plus Alex is seventeen years old, think what he’ll be like at Walcotts age. You heard it here first, Chamberlain will take Walcotts position within the next 3 seasons unless Wenger converts Walcott to forward soon.
theo was scoring goals in the championship at 16/17. not league 1. your a fool
Why are we even trying to buy this cunt for anyway? We don’t need him at all. Bring in Seb Larrson or promote Lansbury.We really don’t need to waste another 10m on an overrated headless chicken.
Knob!
10m is steep for a 17 yr old that hasn’t had any top flight experience. That’s almost as much as we’re paying for Gervinho. The transfer market has been grossly inflated. There’s no way this kid is worth twice as much as we paid for Ramsey.
at least he won’t wanna join barca in 5 years…
Reports (rumours) seem to suggest arsenal are looking to bring in TWO central defenders this summer. How much of that is true, by your reckoning?
Also, any news on lansbury’s contract extension?
I have not seen much of this young lad, appears to be a good prospect from here say (and I for one would much prefer to carry on with the current Arsenal/Arsene model) but I do have a problem with valuation. The current regulations seem to hinder young English prospects more than it allows them to prosper! If he was a young Kolo would Wenger really think about paying 10M? Whilst I acknowledge that this kind of transfer would not be best for Championship/League 1/2 football clubs, it would surely benefit the national team, having the brightest prospects coached by what would seem to be a better coaching staff. But by the same token I’m not too bothered about the England team. Arsenal before England every time personally, just a shame the market seems out of sink and Wenger gets slaughtered for it!
How can I believe that jamie?
I have not seen it in any site yet.
Latest MU deal: 10.5mil for 17yo r.varane..not only do england prospect cost much, france prospect too. Even crystal palace demand that conor wickham can be sell for 12mil. Imbalance market really..
Crystal Palace? Do you mean Ipswich?
Good news in my opinion. Priority should be to fix up the first team and still invest in the youth policy. They can then concentrate on the Carling Cup and will be worth Millions in the future
How much would this douglas costa cost in terms of money?
Compared to what L’pool got for Henderson, he is definitely a bargain. Then again, look at what we got for Gervinho. I bet if he is English, he’ll cost us exactly 3 times what he’s worth now. What a joke!
Gervinho will definitely be a player who’s price rises quickly once he plays for us. He will get 15+ goals in his first campaign.
What the fuck does the murderers over paying for Henderson have to do with Chamberland? Besides Henderson is a top flight player while all this chump Alex has done is put in a season for Southampton in league 1 that was below the standard that Jay Simpson had there a few years ago.
PS, Lansbury will be a better player than Henderson if giving the chance.
im actually surprise at how many concrete offers arsenal made in this transfer windows. it seems wenger wants to sign 2 center back. gervinho on his way, but wenger also bid for willian and douglas costa. there also news wenger still hoping to sign hazard. i wonder how many current first team players will be off by the end of august.
If u have watched AOC play every week like me then
You will know why the big clubs are coming in for him
If u don’t then shut up. It’s easy for u to place a 40-50mil price tag on your players that are meerley youngsters. Anyway we will keep bringing players through and the big teams can keep paying big money. Oh yeah Walcott will leave if u get AOC as he’s 100x better.
@Mark
I’m not your type of fan that overrates players just bcause they play for Arsenal. Here is my fair valuation of our star players.
Cesc £35m
Wilshere £30m
Nasri £12m
Arshavin £5m
Van Persie £12m
Walcott £15m, due to the fact he is English someone might foolishly pay over £20m
Gibbs £4m
Clichy £7m
Song £12m
Chamack £7m
Bentner £12m
Sagna £15m
Almunia £150’000
Chesney £4m
Fabinaski £1m
Ramsey £8m
Diaby £3m
Denilson £5m
And you think we should pay more than £5m for this Oxo clown? ha, i think not.
lol at your ridiculous valuations of our players. Thank god you aren’t the boss mate or you would be getting us ripped off.
Can’t see us getting 24 million for Bendtner & Song, or 40 million with Sagna thrown in.
He looks like theo walcott on steroids
AW please be fast to sign this young gun with in this week so as secure trophy next season
Meh!
We’re not “asking” for too much money. We’re not “asking” for any money. It’s Arsenal that are offering. We don’t want to sell him at all, but.every player has got his price. Fortunately we’re not over a barrel like we were when you came in for Theo. If you don’t rate AOC that high, that’s fine by us. Oh, and Shane – Wilshere, fair enough, Cashley too (although we’re going back a little way now), but the others you mentioned aren’t at the level of Bale, Walcott and AOC, so don’t kid yourself mate.
Did I say that mate? You said we don’t produce our own talent. My point is that all of those guys would be top players and your club and then you would claim that your club produces tons of talents. I also said, you produced 3 recent talents. You are acting like you produce a whole world class team from your academy. Put it this way. If Southampton were in Arsenal’s shoes, you would have only kept those Bale, Walcott and AOC and you would have had to go out and find other talents to fill out your team. Get my point mate?
As for producing these talents from the beginning. For 1 we are limited to a certain distance for young english players to join so you have to be some what lucky to just pop out a top talent. The other thing is, IMO judging how many talented youth players come and go verses how many of those talented youth players become top class players, the hardest part about youth development is turning a talented teenager into a good professional player.
By the way, we have players as talented as AOC. If they were at southampton they would have already been pushed through to the first team too.
As for the price. I believe every club has the right to sell at what ever price they want and the buying club has the option to not pay the asking price. Arsenal do not come out like Barcelona and talk constantly about other teams players in the media. We have discussions with the selling club and we make bids to what we believe the value of the player to be. There is nothing wrong with that mate. Trust me, it would be so much easier to sign him if we did it the Barcelona way and talk so much about him the he pretty much makes it clear that he wants to leave.
@ shanel while I agree that the market is over inflated but if crystal palace want 12.5 million for Conor Wickham the market really has no bounds considering he plays for Ipswich.
english players are way over priced these days, look at henderson deal, what was it 13-14 odd million and eggnog goin the other way. he good player but not worth that imo.
phil jones for 18 million
andy carrol for 50 million, seriously thats just silly money for the quality they get.
then people give out because all the foreign nationals in arsenal squad, is it any wonder when we can get players like nasri for 12 odd million
Breezy, thats because Palace nipped in and pinched him for a poxy £10Mill stuck a 20% profit margin on him and are knocking him out to some overspending Premiership outfit. Good business if you can get it !!!!
Just wanted to get this out even though it will probably get mostly thumbs down because it is about Arsenal’s favorite son. I know everyone is harsh towards our center backs but a lot of the times they are left trying to stop a counter attack by themselves. I noticed a lot that Jack Wilshere was often pretty poor off the ball. I am in no way condemning him and I am a huge fan of his but this is reality and it leaves our defenders and Song stranded often. I noticed that Wilshere often if caught out on the wrong side of the ball, he would just slowly jog back. Another thing is when we have the ball, he often stands around a lot and doesn’t constantly make himself available for a pass plus he even moves with his back to the ball a lot. The only reason I bring this up is because I find it some what unfair that all the blame tends to go towards our defenders when it is often not as simple as that.
If you give a thumbs down, I suggest you go back and watch some of the games and you will easily notice this.
I don’t really think you can question Wilshere’s commitment, if anything he was overly entheusiastic at times last season, and was lucky not to get more cards than he did. Perhaps Wenger told him to calm down, perhaps he missed playing with Frimpong who provided so much cover for him, perhaps he was just fatigued after such an intensive first season. Uncommitted I certainly would not call him.
It was not about commitment in the sense that you are putting it at. It is more about experience and discipline. Getting caught to high up the pitch when you are relied upon in a defensive role is often inexperience. Gassing yourself out to the point where you can not get back is experience. Having issues with knowing how to move off the ball comes down to experience. He will improve in all these areas as he gets older. That is why I said that this is not so much about Wilshere and it definitely is not about his commitment. I am trying to make the point about you can’t just simple blame the center backs all the time when they are hung out to dry a lot.
Surely what u highlighted isn’t a big problem because it was set pieces that let us down last season, not open play. In fact our record from open play was one of the best in the league defensively
I agree with that as well which still goes towards my whole point on people over blaming our centerbacks. However the fouls that lead to the PKs and free kicks can still be related with the issue I brought up. My whole point is that I keep hearing shouts for new center backs when I think that Vermaelen partnered with Djurou or Koscielny is very good.
To Darnzz…. Also, even from open play goals, you would hear people up in arms about the center backs when this was something I noticed happening. Plus just because it does not always end up on the score sheet does not mean Wilshere should not improve on this but like I said, I believe he will.
One other thing, this is what sets Barcelona apart (other then the brilliance of Messi). It is not as much about what they do on the ball. It is more about what they do off the ball. You will not see Iniesta or Xavi turning there backs to the ball or just jogging around. They are always moving to make themselves an option to pass to and they are always working to close down space defensively. People get to wrapped up in thinking that the Barcelona players are amazing individually but aside from Messi, we match them individually. The difference is everything they do off the ball which is something I hope we learn.
Disagree. I love JW like the majority of Gooners and i’m definitely not blinded when it comes to him but he outperformed every single one of our midfielders over the course of the season. He was definitely more consistent than the rest! At 19 years old he came into the side and exemplified the spirit that team-mates such as Diaby, Song, Denilson, Arshavin, Cesc and Walcott should be displaying. At 19 years of age he was ALWAYS bound to make a few mistakes this season (especially being placed under sooooo much pressure by operating in the ‘engine room’) but really is a different class. Yes, he was caught out of position on a few occasions but absolutely nowhere near the amount of times i witnessed him busting a gut to cover either Song or Diaby’s horrendous positional sense and/or lack of work-rate. Unfair comment imho mate.
Oxlade would be a fantastic buy for Arsenal. Thats why AW is so dogged in the chase for him. As a long time Saints fan I can tell you his is already better then Theo. I am afraid to say Chris Waddle was right about Theo. He doesn’t have a footballing brain. Oxlade does. He is a real winger , who can cross properly and takes on the full back with dribbling skills not just pace. However his key attribute is that he cuts in so well that he will get 15 odd goals a season from the wing.
He is not in the U21’s because he has been injured and has been playing for the U19’s ( he is only just 17 ).
why do you let comments like The Daddy wrote on your web site stay. Undermines the real fans
If you get Oxlade, I am sure is impact will be as big as one Thierry Henri. He is that good.
cheers
Posted by devo saint [Reply]
“Oxlade would be a fantastic buy for Arsenal.”
No he wouldn’t, he would get a handful of games in the carlin cup, hardly steller stuff now is it? Games that rightfully should be going to the likes of JET and Lansbury any way.
We already have a similar player that likes to boot in down the wing and charge after it with his head down, we don’t need another one of those.
We do not need to sell Chamberlain and we do not want to sell Chamberlain. If you want him that badly, it doesn’t mean you have the right to buy him for £5 million + “club and international appearances”. Southampton FC are no longer in a position that we have to offload our greatest assets for ridiculously cheap prices. If you don’t like the price our executive chairman is giving you, move on and buy someone else.
if saints refuse to sell the lad ie ask ridiculous money that no club will even consider. they will have an unhappy kid a very annoyed ex international father plus in the future what talented youngster will stay with them ? it is short sighted greed by small english clubs that is the reason so many of them go bust. developing young players is not like selling peas or bog roll. the commodity being sold is human and has brains, feelings and ambitions. saints board should quickly realise that
Not sure which club’s fans I’m getting more p!$$£d off with now, Manure or Goonerville. So Shane (June 17th 04:23) Saints have brought through 3 talents? You don’t remember Paine, Chivers, Channon, Williams (another ruined by Gunners a la Walcott) Shearer, Le Tissier …. the list reads like a who’s who of English football.
You think you have a God-given right to get who you want from wherever you want for whatever you offer.
Things have changed. This isn’t the Walcott/Bale days. Saints don’t need to sell. If Cortese (Saint’s chairman) wishes, he’ll simply not talk to anyone and, if necessary, let Chamberlain rot in the reserves.
Of course, that’s in no one’s interests, so things will work out differently. But Arsenal will be out of the frame if Wenger tries to bully Cortese.
No, I was speaking about some what recent talents that happen to still play football. What happened 20 years ago bares no wait on what happens now in the Wenger era. Secondly, I commented below on the price and bidding thing, but here goes a short answer. We do nothing more then try and negotiate a fee we think is right. We don’t tap up the player or anything like that. I respect your right to think your player is worth more. If a fee can not be agreed then no deal happens. It is as simple as that. Now the difference in right and wrong is, you did not hear Arsenal players coming out 24/7 talking about AOC and you don’t hear any management personal speaking about him like Barcelona do with Fabregas,
By the way, you can’t deny that there is a premium on English talent so yes, over 10 million for a player that has not played higher than the 3rd division is crazy. Fees should run between a combination of skill and risk. Obviously he might be skilled but with his experience level he comes with huge risk.
loyalty is what you pay for in buying an english talent/player, they always feel at home, whether they win or don’t..wait until gervinho sees milan or madrid calling, he ll wag his tail..seen oxlade play and even he’s not worth it, he’s a real talent..could do a gareth bale
SHANE..are wrong on that, remeber against barca, the red card against birmingham, the multiple yellow cards, he does a lot of runnin around and damn its just his 1st season, some guys are never satisfied with what they have..sagna cant cross,chezzer cant save penalties, arshavins too lazy, will these complaints ever stop.. nd wilshere wants to get the ball always..john terry confirmed that.
Wow mate really? If you read any of my comments, I said it has nothing to do with his effort and I said it was not so much about calling Wilshere out but standing up for our defenders plus I said a bunch of times, that this issue will improve with experience. Read properly before you go on a tangent.
Now the difference is I am not condemning Wilshere and I believe Wilshere will become one of the top 2 or 3 midfielders in the world and I understand that he was not going to be perfect in his first year which is why I made it pretty clear that my comments were more about defending the defenders and trashing on Wilshere. Also as for making comments about a flaw in someones game…. Yes, Wilshere should improve on these things and not except mediocrity in parts of his game. Thats what separates the great players from the legends. Sagna’s crossing was what kept him from being world class and this year he has vastly improved his crossing which has taken him to another level. Over reacting because some one spots a flaw in someones game that he will need to improve on and will improve on is a bit sad. I can’t stand people that call our players horrible and all that but that is clearly not what I am doing.
As for Arshavin, he is not lazy. His man issues are he is played out of position and does not have the endurance to be a 2 way player plus he is simply past his prime. He is my favorite player by the way.
Szczeny’s real issues was his kicking but that obviously seemed to just come from nerves when he first started for the first team because it has improved a lot.
£10m+ is a lot of money but many posters on this thread have identified why that’s the valuation – talent and potential. This lad is young but already proving himself to be a very mature footballer. We can wait another year when he might be better but then the valuation might be even higher or we would have missed out on him. 8 years ago Ronaldo was signed for £12+m as an 18 year old and nobody suggests that that wasn’t a great bit of business. Southampton don’t need the cash (they have plenty of money) and we aren’t the only club interested – if we want him, we have to pay what the market dictates.
Shane, would you say we would have had a better team with a Flamini kind of player in Wilshere’s role? I’m pretty sure Wilshere could grow into a role like that, but right now his main qualities are in building up attacks. I’m not sure we would have had that kind of attacking threat with say Flamini in his place. It would mean alot more attacking responsibility on the main attacking player of our midfield three, and thus easier for the other team to defend. So in other words if one would like a central midfield where attacking flair comes from different outputs, and still have two midfielders who are defensively solid, you’d have to replace Wilshere with a worldclass player, instead of playing a worldclass talent soon to be a worldclass player, and I’m not so sure Wenger is willing to do that. I am one who’d like Wenger to get in a Flamini kind of type to partner Song in certain games.
No, Wilshere is brilliant for the spot and can do all the things needed including carrying to ball from deep positions and tackle which he is good at both. He just needs experience and to be trained on what to do off the ball more which he definitely will be as he gets older. I was just pointing out that football is a team sport and the most obvious person to blame is not necessarily the person that all the blame should go to. Football has a domino effect in almost every aspect. It is like when a guy gets caught on the ball, people automatically blame him but it could be that his team mates were not moving off the ball and making themselves available for a pass.
By the way, personally I would prefer the 4-3-3 with Song behind Fabregas and Wilshere. It gives the most balance to me between defense and attack.
yes of course £10+ is over priced for this up and coming teenager, but often england players are investments and good value at the right age. Look at the transfer history of the following; Milner, Lescott, Johnson, Carrick, Bent, young, if you buy at the right time there is value. I’d imagine all of the following young english purchases would reach far great value today – Walcott, jagielka, Cahill, walker, sturridge. Ferguson paid £12 and £17 million for Smalling and Jones, but if end up the new Terry and Ferdinand, that’s potentially £60m worth of talent (lets hope not!). Lets hope we get this young lad and he becomes a top england international….rather that and do a Liverpool and pay top premium for their english purchases!!!
Wow Douglas Costa…. i swear arsenal is not playing around this summer… If we land douglas costa we just landed a future star. He is up there. i would take him over eden or any other winger we’ve been linked with… there is something you cannot coach and that’s talent… under wengers tutelage… he would be up there. i have been down on Arsenal for a while but this show of intent with chamberlain, gerv now costa……. me likey.
Porgy… i dont mind to barge in but wilshere… is wilshere. flamini was a decent DM and i think he had reached his ceiling when he came here. As you can see its only Gattusso’s old age that allow him see starting minutes at AC. wilshere is improving by the day… his technical brilliance and eye for the long pass is impressive… flamini did not have that. well he was ok… but not that good. wilshere naturally comes with a tenacity and spared Song’s blushes occasionally. Finally there is that love for the team thing… In our last 7 games no one played harder. I went back and watched some games i had saved…. when players started to hang their heads and walk around the pitch after giving up a goal he maintained his energy… suprisingly that is something i like about theo too… in a nutshell lets have wilshere continue to be him without us fitting him in a round hole… he might be square afterall.
now in regards to what shane said… its true. he does stand around … and passes the ball wrong sometimes… and jogs back slowly but he does those things but i would not say a lot shane… a bit would be abtly put. and that would be pushing it. the thing with us is we are quick to kill the player before he gets there. nasri couldnt score, give an assist or go back on defence a year ago. look at him now. he would make mistakes and in his full first year in the starting line up i can confidently say he did quite well
No mate, my comment was not intended to be negative on Wilshere and I pointed that out in my paragraph. It was a bit of constructive criticism but the main point was to show that people are so quick to throw all the blame at our center backs but football is not as simple as that. There is often a domino affect in football. As for Wilshere, I am a huge fan. Hell I even bought his jersey 2 years ago (along with my Arshavin one). Jack Wilshere is the real deal and will be a massive success for years to come.
Saints Fan in Peace:
First Chamberlain has more ability than Theo
Second Saints didn’t get 12m as the deal was closed early
Third the Theo deal was 4 seasons ago
But mainly Cortese does want, and doesn’t need to sell Chamberlain. That means if Arsenal want him they are going to have to pay more than he is worth.
All this Saints are being greedy is nuts, how much do Arsenal fans want to see Fabregas sold for. The answer is they don’t!
Going back to something ALEX said earlier…does anyone think Wenger will move Walcott forward? and would that be a good move?
Would definitely be a good move if we played 2 up top. He is really a forward. It is different being a loan striker tho.
let me tell everyone why we need Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain is when theo was injured we didn’t have pace to hurt teams at all we look boring we were not direct but with thoe play we were different more direct and he scares the hell out of defenders. now Alex is not just a fast player he’s more clever than theo way more the boy can cross and dribble he has football in his DNA the other reason why i want him Alex to come is we might see theo play as a striker theo is getting to an age were he can handle defenders he makes good runs to hurt them as we saw when we played chelski and Barca
Apparently he’s demanding $30,000 per week
I really dont understand the utter joy over the Gervinho signing. Yes he is better than Cham and Bendtner but that does’nt mean he’ll be a great signing. He’s just ok
I’m dying for us to wrap up the chamberlain deal, but if we have to pay over 14m we may have to back out. I think Arsene intends to mould him into a english nasri
Gervinho is exactly the type of player we needed. A direct wide forward who can link up well, get assists, take players on with pace and skill, get you 12-16 goals and play consistently. Also as an added bonus, he is class at striker too. I personally will love this signing and think he will prove to be a great buy.
Shane he is a striker that CAN play on the wing, he’s not natural at it. He wont get 12-15 from the wing. I understand your points but i really think we should be going for better
I could be wrong but i swear i read somewhere he was a free agent before signing again for lille. Really hope our hard negotiations policy interferes and we dont get him
First off he has played in a wide forward position all year and for Ivory coast. Secondly, he is just as comfortable at either spot which is pretty much what I said. Trust me mate. This guy is a business end kind of guy. He has a bit of flair in him but he is a guy that makes the runs, links up well, put a bit of fear in the full backs and bags goals. I will bet anyone that he gets at least 15 goals next year if he is with us (Barring long term injury) whether it be from wing or striker.
Shane i hope your right, but i’d rather much have a signing of william or da costa than this guy. I’ve seen this guys countless times over the years and i just dont see what your seeing. Take a look at his performances at the wc or acn just as an example. Plus scoring 15 goal in french football and 15 in the prem is very different
You can also say the same in that playing with the likes of Fabregas and Nasri different then playing with Lille players. At the world cup, he was seen as a bright spot for Ivory Coast and it made no sense that he had issues with the playing time there. As for Costa, yah, I would love to get him. My point is just that I hope for a several different players but at this point I am just happy if we are improving and Gervinho IMO is someone that brings some things that we lack. A bit of directness and goal scoring. We shall see tho mate. I hope it goes well.
This would be a good deal for a future english prospect, get him signed!!
What I was trying to say rashonwenger, was that I think Wilshere is much of the same type of player as Flamini when it comes to defend, just not yet at that level. He’s aggressive, works harder than most in our team, has a real hunger and good stamina.. Obviously Wilshere will always be a class above when it comes to offense. And I’m not saying Flamini is a fantastically gifted player either, just that he was the kind of player Wenger’s tactics need in certain spots on the pitch; Grafters who complement the ballerinas. Now Wilshere is at the moment a bit of both. I just think that in some games a player with a bit more discipline and routine defensively would be a better option in Wilshere’s spot.
I agree completely. Wilshere is a great talent, but he’s only 19. He still has a lot to learn and experience to gain. The second season tend to be more difficult for any player.
I think a player like Scott Parker would be a fantastic addition. A proper grafter and a good footballer. He can play with either wilshere, song or diaby. In addition he could provide some guidance for our young up-coming DMs (Frimpong and Le Coq).
I definitely think we need another defensive mid because Song can not play every game. Maybe Coquelin will be the answer but it is a bit of a gamble on that front right now. When Diaby and Wilshere play together the issue becomes they are both players that like to carry the ball up the pitch which will eventually lead to turning it over and counter attacks. It is just to much of the same thing with both of them in at the same time.
On Parker, the problem would be his fee justifying his age and them getting relegated. Personally I think this happens a lot, where the guy hits his peak season and the inflation price comes and then you get the player on the back end of his career. That is what happened with Arshavin. He has still been good for us but he hit his peak seasons right before we bought him. The point is, you have to be careful with these kind of signing.
I think Parker has been getting better with age to be honest. I think where he is in his career and what we need is a perfect fit. Is he a world beater? Probably not. Will he get better? Probably not. But his football ability, character, personality and experience would be pefect for us, and allow Frimpong and Coqueling to grow organically into the team. Both need more top flight experience, before we know if they can hack it with us.
I agree somewhat but there is a time where players hit that wall. It is hard to fork out 10 plus million pounds on a 30 year old. Maybe for around 4-6 million then ok but considering our motto is to not even offer players over 30 more then 1 year contracts, this deal would be hard to see happening.
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Just saw Gervinho at the Emirates…no joke! He was on the away fans bridge wearing a pink shirt and tweed jacket (worryingly)! My bet is he was having the picture on the balcony taken! GET IN!!!
we don’t need a 30 yr old scott parker, who will he be replacing in the team yes parker as execelent qualities but he’s never going to get in before song and with the 25 man squad rule we are better with promoting coquelin as understuding, what we is goals from midfield eg. rosicky 34 app with 1 goal says it all, we need spend but if it’s a 30 yr old then it should be eto’o.
Defensive Mid and players that could and i mean could play there, or have before.
Song
Diaby
Denilson (probably going)
Nasri
Gibbs
Sagna
Wilshire
Ramsey
Lansbury
Coquelin
Frimpong
Eboue (possibly going)
Squillaci (hopefully going)
Djourou
Koscielney
Vermaelen
Bartley
Ozyakup
Henderson
I just think too much is put on this position. Sure if a player excels in just sitting in front of the back 4 like Makele did then great. But many midfielders have much more too offer. I believe that when Wenger said he wanted to add height and more solidity, he meant utilising a group of top class taller defenders in his defensive roles, including DM. For that reason i can see that if Clichy and Eboue leave they will be replaced by in the squad by Centre Halves (Samba and Cahill), allowing the existing centre halves to take up defensive roles in other areas such as RB, LB and DM. All our current centre halves are capable of that. It would mean our midfielders such as Song, Coquelin, Frimpong can express themselves more with slightly more adventurous roles. Do not be suprised to see us line up with 5 centre halves next season against Stoke 2 at full back, 2 in the middle and 1 at Defensive Mid.
Sczcesney
Koscielney Samba Cahill Vermaelen
Djourou
Wilshire Fabregas Nasri
Gervinho
RVP
Sub: Fabianski, Jenkinson, Song, Ramsey, Walcott, Chamakh, Arshavin
It wont be every match but the height and solidity will be there for this banana skin
sorry mate but football is not as simple as through random players around and expecting it to work. Also trivializes the defensive mid position as simply sitting in front of the defense is silly. It is one of the hardest positions because not only have to be able to read the game better then almost any player and tackle and break up attacking but you are doing this in a large amount of space. Trying to tackle a player that can go in almost any direction is much harder then tackling a player as a defender when you know exactly where he is trying to go. Also, if you can’t read the game properly then you will just always be chasing the play and one step behind. Ask Nordveit about his experiences at Nurnberg with that.
he come or no ?
Here is Shane, the typical Arsenal fan and here is his opinion of the Value of the Arsenal team.
Almunia 10m
Fabinaski 15m
Chesney 30m
Sagna 30m
Clichy 20m
Gibbs 27m ( he’s English )
Vermalen 30m
Kos 24m
Djourou ( Thurum went for over 20m so I would 22m is fair here. )
Song 30m
Cesc ( 85m since Ronaldo went for 80m )
Nasri 50m
Wilshere 70m ( he’s English )
Arshavin 17m
Rosicky 7m
Van Persie 50m
Chamack 20m
Bendtner 20m
Walcott 47m ( he’s English )
No wonder we pay the highest ticket prices in sport with fans like this.
wow again lol. Just because I said those ridiculous under priced valuations were silly, now you do the opposite and I am the unrealistic person. Love how that works in people minds. Here, just for kicks I will put what I think is realistic valuations of our players considering all thing that go with transfers.
All fees are not Man City bumper priced
Almunia – 1 m
Fabinaski – 2 -3 m
Chesney – 10- 12 m (judging by De Gea going for 18 million, Szzesny is a little less valued in the public eye right now)
Sagna – 16 million (This is the fee tossed around for most top class well known full backs. The ones right above Sagna like Dani Alves run more)
Clichy – 5 – 6 m (considering his contract is running down)
Gibbs – 10 – 12m (considering he is tipped to be the long term england left back and has already featured for them. He comes with the english price and if he was a first choice for club, he would probably run more)
Vermalen 20 – 25m (This is the range that top center backs run)
Koscielny – 7 – 10m (About what we paid for him. In the public eye, he has not been a huge success but Wenger sees the potential in him)
Djourou – 11 m
Song – 15m (there would be no shortage of takers for him I guarantee you that. Not many defensive mids better then him at his age)
Cesc – 50 – 60 m (there are not many players like him. For god sakes the man has over 90 assists for use and is just getting into his prime years.)
Nasri 15m (last year of his contract but if we sold, he would go for this easily in a bidding war regardless)
Wilshere – 30 – 40m (yes, part is definitely because he is English. Secondly he is already becoming a top player for his country and had a great performance verse Barcelona and the top 2 central midfielders in the world. If Henderson runs 20 million from Liverpool ,Carroll ran 35, Jones 17-20m then a guy that is younger then 2 of them and much farther ahead in their careers, the price makes sense.)
Arshavin – 5 -7m (This would most likely be from Zenit)
Rosicky – Free (a player at his stage would be aloud to move for free if he wanted to leave)
Van Persie – 23- 25m (Berbatov 30m, Torres 50m, Carroll 35 m, Suarez 22m…. RVP coming off of like 18 goals in 19 games would be at his peak price. Obviously his value is lower because of his injury worries)
Chamack – 5 – 8m (you know a french team would pay that)
Bendtner – 6 – 9m (his price is around that because there is a premium on strikers with height and he has the clear potential)
Walcott – 17 – 20m (Tricky one to determine but yes his obvious potential, extraordinary pace and him being an English international plus coming off of his best season to date and seeing the prices of recent english player transfers, it make sense.)
The Daddy>
You obviously haven’t kept up with transfer inflation. A couple of your prices are completely daft, but generally you’ve got them in the right ball-park, even if most are at the high-end of a plausible range.
The prices for Vermaelen, Kos, and Walcott are obviously silly, but those are the only ones. Oh, and Almunia’s too high as well, but only by a few million.
Posted by Shane on June 17th, 2011, 15:55
All fees are not Man City bumper priced
Almunia – 1 m
( NOT ALL THAT DIFFERENT FROM WHAT I SAID. )
Fabinaski – 2 -3 m
( NOT ALL THAT DIFFERENT FROM WHAT I SAID. )
Chesney – 10- 12 m (judging by De Gea going for 18 million, Szzesny is a little less valued in the public eye right now)
( NO CHANCE, INSANE ACTUALLY. IF HE HAS A GOOD SEASON AS NUMBER ONE NEXT YEAR THEN FAIR ENOUGH. HE HAS BEEN AVERAGE SO FAR, ALTHOUGH I DO RATE HIM HIGHLY FOR HIS AGE.)
Sagna – 16 million (This is the fee tossed around for most top class well known full backs. The ones right above Sagna like Dani Alves run more)
( NOT ALL THAT DIFFERENT FROM WHAT I SAID. )
Clichy – 5 – 6 m (considering his contract is running down)
( NOT ALL THAT DIFFERENT FROM WHAT I SAID. )
Gibbs – 10 – 12m (considering he is tipped to be the long term england left back and has already featured for them. He comes with the english price and if he was a first choice for club, he would probably run more)
( HE’S BEEN DREADFUL, NO CHANCE, EVEN ALLOWING FOR HIM BEING ENGLISH.)
Vermalen 20 – 25m (This is the range that top center backs run)
( NO CHANCE, NOBODY WOULD BID ANY WHERE NEAR 20M AFTER THAT CAREER THREATHING INJURY SEASON HE HAD. i RATED HIM AT 20M PRIOR TO THE INJURY. )
Koscielny – 7 – 10m (About what we paid for him. In the public eye, he has not been a huge success but Wenger sees the potential in him)
( UNDERRATED PLAYER, SEEMS FAIR. )
Djourou – 11 m
(NO CHANCE, NOT WITH HIS CAREER THREATHING INJURIES. 7M)
Song – 15m (there would be no shortage of takers for him I guarantee you that. Not many defensive mids better then him at his age)
( NOT ALL THAT DIFFERENT FROM WHAT I SAID. )
Cesc – 50 – 60 m (there are not many players like him. For god sakes the man has over 90 assists for use and is just getting into his prime years.)
( LIKE TORRES NIGGLING INJURES ARE COSTING HIM VALUE WISE, 40M IS THE MAX WE CAN GET, TORRES WAS A FRONT MAN SO WAS ALWAYS GOING TO COST A BIT EXTRA. )
Nasri 15m (last year of his contract but if we sold, he would go for this easily in a bidding war regardless)
( NOT ALL THAT DIFFERENT FROM WHAT I SAID. )
Wilshere – 30 – 40m (yes, part is definitely because he is English. Secondly he is already becoming a top player for his country and had a great performance verse Barcelona and the top 2 central midfielders in the world. If Henderson runs 20 million from Liverpool ,Carroll ran 35, Jones 17-20m then a guy that is younger then 2 of them and much farther ahead in their careers, the price makes sense.)
( NOT ALL THAT DIFFERENT FROM WHAT I SAID. )
Arshavin – 5 -7m (This would most likely be from Zenit)
( NOT ALL THAT DIFFERENT FROM WHAT I SAID. )
Rosicky – Free (a player at his stage would be aloud to move for free if he wanted to leave)
(AGREED)
Van Persie – 23- 25m (Berbatov 30m, Torres 50m, Carroll 35 m, Suarez 22m…. RVP coming off of like 18 goals in 19 games would be at his peak price. Obviously his value is lower because of his injury worries)
( NO CHANCE, NOT WITH HIS INJURIES, WOULDN’T BE A SHOCK IF HE MISSED 3/4 OF NEXT SEASON. cUT VALUE IN HALF AT LEAST.)
Chamack – 5 – 8m (you know a french team would pay that)
Bendtner – 6 – 9m (his price is around that because there is a premium on strikers with height and he has the clear potential)
( THIS IS THE ONLY ONE’S VALUE I WOULD RATE HIGHER THAN YOU. EVEN FOR A PREM TEAM IF HE IS A STARTER HE SCORES 20 GOALS QUITE EASILY. 12M/15M CONSIDERING HE IS COMING INTO HIS PEAK YEARS AND ON A LONG CONTRACT.)
Walcott – 17 – 20m (Tricky one to determine but yes his obvious potential, extraordinary pace and him being an English international plus coming off of his best season to date and seeing the prices of recent english player transfers, it make sense.)
( NOT ALL THAT DIFFERENT FROM WHAT I SAID. )
On your first valuations fair enough. I got caught up in some that were way off like Fabregas, Gibbs, Diaby, Szczesny and Ramsey mainly. Not sure how anyone could realistically value Fabregas at only 35 million tho. Also I put Song at 15 million as a lowest possible. My bad tho for over reacting mate.
for the amount of money that is in the offing i think it is too much money paying southampton for a 17 yr old kid in the region of 10-15 when we already have players in that position and are not trying to sign a world class winger such as eden hazard who would be perfect for arsenal with his pace and dribbling skill and is established in a competitive league that is the french whereby he got voted player of the year
I watched a video clip of hazard about 2-3 years ago when he was only featuring in the first team occasionally and wenger was in the video commenting on his ability. Why we didn’t buy him then and there for 10 mill beats the sh*t out of me. AOC will never reach hazards ability. Hopefully we are still interested
Honestly, we can not know exactly how every situation goes down but yah, from a game at the u17 European championships, you could tell how great he was. These kind of players are not really that hard to judge. The kid was out there doing elastics, rabonas and just dribbling everyone.
Also considering rosickys loss of form. Ashavins loss of effort and nasri loss of commitment. Hazard should deffinately be the fist buy
just throwing it out there but does anybody think he could pass for wellington’s twin???
I have watched some UEFA Under 21 tournament games, and I don’t know why Liverpool and MU have paid ~20mil in pounds (~40mil in $) for Henderson and Jones. They are just so so players. Henderson is expected as an architect to hold and launch all the England attacks, but he has had so many wrong passes and crosses. Premier Clubs have paid triple price to the player values, not only to English players. Manchester City paid ton of pounds for Dzeko, Robinho, Kolarov,.., MU to Bebe…
his price is inflated cos hes british u17(home grown in 3 yrs) a gamble though when compared to what douglas costa has to offer
Arsenal should meet their own evaluation of the player and no more. Maybe there ar other aspects like a loan back or sell-on percentage that can be negociated, but that’s all. If Southampton want to put a prohibitive price on him that’s their right but Arsenal should be prepared to walk away. There are always other fish in the sea, and there are no guarantees at that age. We’re not exactly short of young prospects.
I don’t think he wants to go anywhere to be honest. He would be in the first team at St Mary’s but might not even make the bench at Arsenal. It is his old man who is talking up this transfer
What makes me titter is that Arsenal got Theo for about 9m in the end and there is a guy on here that values him at 15-20m and, in the nest breath says that paying anything over 5m for Chamberlain would be bad business!
He can only be right on one count and I think that that would be that buying AOC would be bad business. I cant see that Wengers purchase policy is actually bearing much fruit.
If I was an Arsenal Fan, I would be questioning why AW wants more kids. There are loads at Highbury and for every Jack Wiltshire there are a whole host of failures. Yes they do seem to be able to offload a few to lower league clubs but at the same time. Wenger is playing nice football but winning nothing.
Arsenal should have the cash to buy established players
Posted by Jesus_02 on June 17th, 2011, 19:54
Jesus you haven’t really thought this one through have you? This is not football manager. You are not taking into account the million or so signing on fee Oxo will want, plus around 10m or so that will have to be paid to Oxo in wages while he plays for our reserves/carling cup team for the next 5 years while he works on becoming an adult footballer that might be good enough to become a starter for a prem team.
I don’t wanna go to school today, mommy.
Do we really need another walcott? Ok walcott is now half useful, but after 5 years of mainly rubbish…
On top of that we have a team full of similar “not quite made it” type players.. diaby, denilson, bendtner, vela.. the list goes on.
We need more vermaelans and van persies and less walcotts and denilsons
Oh well The Daddy, You really are missing my point here
Just to reiterate, buying AOC isn’t really good business at all for Arsenal.
It might be if he was the only player of his type that Wenger signed. The maths adds up on an individual basis 5m (purchase) 10m (wages over 5 years)1m (agents fees’ etc)=16m if you sell him for 20+ that’s 4m profit.
The problem is that if he makes it, then it will be at the expense of any number of other similarly purchased youngsters which needs to be added to the equation
Also, as you quite rightly pointed out it may be 5 seasons before he even plays regularly. If he stayed and helped Saints get promoted he could be a Premiership regular in way under that with regular first team football all the way.
The truth is its just a race to sign these players before Man U or Chelsea do (Man City just buy the final product)
chamberlain is a very good player on the cusp of greatness… with hardwork and good coaching. he is better than theo in almost every department. what he decides to make of himself is completely up to him. is he worth 10mil… i think not. plus if we sign him for that much, imagine what his weekly wages would be. he has a good cross in those legs… good ball placement when he shoots. And his movement with the ball which is the big knock on walcott is significantly better. However he has not been tested against top opponents. we dont know anything about his attitude or work ethic which to me is way more important than his skill. simply because a player with heart and ethics is willing to push to be better…. and talent with no work equals a loser. in a nutshell 10 million is a big risk. Hell, what do i know? Im quite sure arsene has looked into it. hopefully he has.
in response to all the idiots that keep asking why we keep signing kids…. it’s simple…. they train with each other and play 11 on 11 or 7 on 7 with each other including competitive games which they participate in. Players are not stupid… they compare themselves with each other and work on skills they fall short on so as to move up the pecking order. if the talents are inferior… the less motivation to work. when the talent is above par… you have to work harder to stay above the curve. Finally look at barca… they have stars upon stars in their youth team and are still signing them on… do you think they are dumb? No! the wheat always separates from the chaff… those that remain would be worthy of donning the arsenal colors… iron sharpens iron. its that simple. i wish we did the same at centre back… we need more talent in the youth system… loads more in that position.
i wonder how much ill be worth as a footballer,i’m quick ( 100m under 11s 2 years ago), im strong and tall( weigh 13 stone, easily bench about 100kg and 6’1)
and im fairly skillfull ( what person with a west african heritage aint got skills.
and best of all i am BRiTISH! ( i wont represent my Dads country). im very versatile( ive played everywhere except CDM)
THE DADDY SAID “OXO CLOWN “RACIESTST GIT!
Oh dear, i never realised Saints fans were this delusional, forgetful and classless. To all the Saints fans that have come on here and shown respect whilst leaving a sensible comment, i have nothing but respect for you. You are a credit to your Club. However, for all the twats that have come on here to give it billy big bollocks need to wake the fuck up! What are you thinking? Seriously, what are you all thinking? That because some guy with money now owns your Club, that you can say and do what you like? You think that makes it fine to pop up on the blog of the THIRD most successful football Club in England and give it the lemon? WTF!? Forget this thread though – a couple of weeks ago i found a link to an article in your local ‘Echo’ and found it both absolutely hilarious and extremely arrogant! I read all these messages putting AFC down and anybody could have been forgiven for thinking AFC were some delusional little Club trying to muscle in and bully a much bigger Club into selling their prized asset. Our manager was abused. Our football Club were abused. Why? Because we’re trying to be prudent in our business dealings? All this while Cortese was spoken about as if he was THE Messiah himself! A brilliant businessman with crazy money who will no doubt put ‘Whinger’ and that shit Arsenal Club in their rightful place! That’s seriously the way this Cortese guy was portrayed. Apparently, he’s already put ‘Whinger’ in his place because, according to a few Saints insiders, a deal was all tied up and everything was in order but then that French frog ‘Whinger’ went and opened his big mouth and went public about the deal so Cortese, being the distinguished and morally perfect Messiah that he is, taught ‘Whinger’ a lesson and pulled the plug on the deal. Cortese is so gangsta that he pushes the ‘Whinger’, Stanley and the WHOLE entire Arsenal board around! They didn’t actually say that last part but after i read about 50-60 comments on the subject, that was the general consensus among these delusional planks! How about a bit of respect Saints fans? We are, after all, the very Club that pushed through that Theo Walcott money in triple quick time in order to appease your administrators to the point where they wouldn’t liquidate your sorry arses! So if anything, you should be sucking our you know what for the rest of your stinking existence! You should be just as grateful to AFC as you are to Liebherr and Cortese. Without AFC, those two chaps wouldn’t even have had the opportunity to save your arses! Never forget!